A greasy Yorkie

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 23:10:02 GMT

Antihistamines are a little hit and miss in dogs, true. I think the issue is largely related to dose - they need bucket loads. Tavegil is 1mg/10kg once or twice a day - a human would take 1mg/adult/day I give piriton at 4mg/10kg tid if need be. And i like atarax but in the past have had supply issues ( i gather tavegil is about to disappear off the market too) so learned to live without it.

I don't think antihistamines are much good on their own but as part of overall strategy can be helpful in raising the pruritic threshold and thereby reducing itch levels, and pred doses. and they buy time while you wait for everything else to kick in.

I'm not aware of significant drowsiness as a side effect in dogs on any of the antihistamines i trial, but most owners would not see it as an issue. They want to see their itchy pets relax and sleep. It comes down to communication and managing expectations.

Having said that I'm not at all against using preds, it is often a welfare issue, and i use bucket-loads. But recently I had a long term atopic/ food allergic nightmare skin case dissolve into a crawling heap of demodex - he was on 5mg pred once a day ( for a 35kg dog) among all the other things i try. Awful mess, referred him on a hurry, and felt extremely sheepish . He's of preds for good, and funnily enough doing great without it. I can't figure it out - I guess when you know you can't use preds, at all, then alternatives have more of a chance to show their worth. Or he's just in a natural good patch. hmmm...

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Chris Geddes — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 20:56:03 GMT

I think you hit the nail on the head there! Do they cause any decrease in pruritus, or does the dog just scratch less because it is drowsy! As popular as antihistamines seem to be in general practice, I'm yet to see any evidence that they decrease pruritus in dogs!

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Claire McConnell — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:35:17 GMT

[quote user="Rachael Winder"]I do sometimes try antihistmaines in mildly itchy dogs but have very little success with them[/quote]

I use pred for short term fast acting pruritic control (ie. superficial pyoderma) whilst antibiotics working etc. However I always try antihistamines first for long term pruritic control and I would say that in my experience Atarax (hydroxyzine) seems to help more than Piriton (Chlorophenamine). Perhaps 50% of my patients seem to improve and of those maybe 20-30% do not require any other anti pruritic medications to help. However as I say this is just in my personal experience. I do remember being told in a CPD course that atarax seems more effective in dogs as well compared to piriton. Suggested dose rates in bsava formulary. However to end dose rates occassionnally cause drowsiness as in people.

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Rachael Winder — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:01:52 GMT

I do sometimes try antihistmaines in mildly itchy dogs but have very little success with them. I seem to remember reading they are only effective in about 20% dogs? This dog has had the full kit andf caboodle in the past with no effect so don't think owner will be prepared to go there again. Am going to try without pred first for 3-4weeks and then reassess.

Thanks for all the advice.

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Chris Geddes — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:05:29 GMT

Not sure there is any evidence of efficacy of antihistamines in dogs though Stephen?

As far as antipruritic medications go, don't forget Cortavance! It can be forgotten about for all but the most local of lesions, but can be used for up to 2/3 of the surface area of the dog.

Chris

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 16:22:58 GMT

I'd try antihistamine before pred, unless the dog is really in a bad way! Piriton or Tavegil as first choice. Once you've used pred the owner will always want it. it's just too easy for owners as well as vets

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Chris Geddes — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:03:51 GMT

Please let me know how you get on Rachel!

Chris

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Rachael Winder — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:51:26 GMT

Always the way! Could keep it still enough for impression slides but nowt else. Mulitple scrapes negative so going try the sebolytic plus humilac and go from there. might go for some very low dose pred too if it continues to be itchy.

Re: A greasy Yorkie

emma o'connor — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:01:33 GMT

Why is it these cases always come in late in the day when its a bit hectic, and the owners no doubt want an answer there and then!

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Rachael Winder — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:21:00 GMT

Ems- got booked for scrapes tomorrow, nice dog but nervous and too wriggly to manage in a busy evening surgery! Cytology singularly unexciting so doesn't look like got any secondary overgrowths etc to worry about. Absolutely no other csx, not even a nice PU/PD to concentrate on!

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Chris Geddes — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:13:49 GMT

Hi Rachel

Have you tried Virbac shampoo Sebolytic? This is designed for greasy skin. It contains zinc gluconate which downregulates sebum production. It also contains salicylic acid (keratolytic), linoleic and gamma linoleic acid (EFAs to restore barrier function as well as moisturising properties), piroctone olamine (antibacterial), vit B6 and tea tree oil.

If shouldn't cause dryness, but Humilac spray (containing propylene glycol, urea, clycerine and chitosanide) is designed to aid moisturising of the skin without leaving a greasy film. It can be used after shampooing where this is an issue, either as a spray, or probably more easily used as a final rinse after the shampoo has been rinsed off.

If you would like to discuss further, give one of our technical advisors a call on 01359 243 243.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Re: A greasy Yorkie

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:29:16 GMT

I'd also be wary of overoily skin because of all that washing...

Re: A greasy Yorkie

James Laidlaw — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:53:51 GMT

There is a range of shampoos that have a spray component too now - douxo or something like that from avacta. They have a greasy skin one that you wash 2-3 times in first 7 days then can switch to a spray. Which involves less wetting of coat and much simpler compliance. Although I'd probably go down the road of some basic skin workup first +/- swabs/biopsies etc to try and get a diagnosis or at the very least some rule-outs.

Re: A greasy Yorkie

emma o'connor — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:28:31 GMT

Have you just done skin surface cytology? I would be checking plucks and scrapes also as i have seen a few greasy looking westies in the past which have had high numbers of demodex mites.