Mass in a rat

Re: Mass in a rat

Claire McConnell — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:56:20 GMT

Please dont shout me down as being a crazy rat owner but... I personally used galastop in two of my own female pet rats a couple of years ago and didn't see a good response. One had a mammary mass removed and then when another one grew (ina different mammary area - so not regrowth of the original) I tried galastop not wanting to put a rat through too many what I see as invasive surgeries for such a small pet. I feel she got put to sleep when I had originaly expected regardless of galastop use.

The same is true of the other rat I tried it in, although this one did not have any surgery beforehand. I didn't feel the rate of growth of th tumour slowed at all really. However maybe I was unlucky and had malignant tumours or perhaps there was a change but not very noticeable.

I would also note that being a vet I have put my rats to sleep when they were still "healthy" (before the tumours impinge movement, get ulcerated or sore etc) so perhaps perserverence with galastop for longer may have helped. ? However I feel pts in these rats before QOL is poor (especially when you know it WILL get poor) is better than allowing life to deteriorate first.

Re: Mass in a rat

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:48:21 GMT

[quote user="Gareth Dowdeswell"]

Took a tumour off a rat in January, PTSed it for recurrence of the mass 2 days ago. As long as the owners are aware of the risks surely giving that rat a further 5-6 months (if the lump had been left probably would have need euthansia around Feb/March) of life when its lifespan would otherwise have been under 2 years is worthwhile?

[/quote]

I often encourage removal as they do cope well once the hindrance of the lump itself is removed. They are usually benign adenomas/fibroadenomas, only a reported 10-15% are adenocarcinomas and in my experience the malignant proportion is even lower than this. As Mark has mentioned, excessive prolactin is often an inducing factor. Cabergoline can be used to reduce recurrence or slow growth of existing masses due to its effect on pituitary prolactin production.

Re: Mass in a rat

Gareth Dowdeswell — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:42:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Quite frankly its not worth treating any tumours in rats, most seem to be malignant and whatever you do they recurr or you get mets within a month.

[/quote]

Re: Mass in a rat

Mark Rowland — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 21:56:43 GMT

As far as I can remember rats with mammary masses have v high circulating prolactin levels... so you are speying to prevent the prolactinoma to prevent the mammary masses. Therefore the earlier the better

Re: Mass in a rat

Rachael Winder — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:42:57 GMT

On a related issue, does it matter when you spey with respect to reducing the risk of mammary masses? I know there was a study suggesting that neutering at 6w.o. made a difference, but everything I've read about speying later is a bit vague. Is there a cut-off where it doesn't help anymore?

Re: Mass in a rat

Mark Rowland — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:15:07 GMT

Re: Mass in a rat

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:05:43 GMT

Rat owners fall firmly into two ends of a spectrum: most realise they are childrens pets whose main purpose is to live and die quickly to get the child to develop care and responsibility and prepare them for the real world where sickness and death is an everyday fact of life and accept that there is a limit to the effort:cost:benefit ratio; and those who quite frankly are a bit nutty and have a psycologically unhealthy attachment and unreasonable expectations.

Re: Mass in a rat

Rob Loxley — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:56:22 GMT

[quote user="Rachael Winder"]My experience of rat masses is actually that they do well after surgery (though as I say these are mammary masses on the whole).[/quote]

I agree with you there. Also with seeing a growing number of dedicated adults keeping rats, as well as children (for whom they're high on my list of recommended pets). Would like to see us doing more spaying than mammary tumor removal though - working on that with some of our clients...

Re: Mass in a rat

Mark Rowland — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:21:41 GMT

Yes but their ability to grow cancer rivals that of even rats! (big shame)

Re: Mass in a rat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:16:10 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]I like rats. My clients like that i like rats.[/quote]

I can take rats or leave them, but I hope I don't project any sort of negative attitude in the consulting room. My clients like that I deal with rats sympathetically and with energy. If they fully understand the position I'm very happy to do a good job of tumour excision. However whether major surgery is "worth it" is debatable and the majority of clients prefer to accept that the rat's life is drawing to a close.

While we are on likeable pets: I'm seeing African Pigmy Hedgehogs lately, and they have taken over the title from Russian Hamsters as the cutest pets ever

Re: Mass in a rat

Bob Russell — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:12:04 GMT

And don't rat owners get really upset when the rats need euthanasia! Our 'rat lady' became so emotional and stressed that she has stopped keeping them. She had more than 20 of them and was just delighted to find a vet that was willing to try surgery rather than just write them off. I think they are great pets but owners need counseling to get them prepared for the short life-span.

She has seen the light and now has Bull Terriers

Re: Mass in a rat

Rachael Winder — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:01:05 GMT

I am increasingly finding that rats are the new rabbits- no longer the preserve of the kid's pet! Most of my rat clients are in their 20-30s, married and mortgaged, and generally have a colony rather than the odd rat or two. They are very dedicated owners, who are willing to go more than the extra mile. I agree fully that sx in an elderly rat is not sensible but am very happy to take lumps off younger rats, who often have multiple months-years of good normal quality life after that. Many of my rat clients choose to neuter their rats so that they can colony live and also to hopefully lower the risk of mammary tumours. We ended up with loads of rat clients as we were prepared to do more than just dole out baytril and interestingly my boss told me yesterday that one of my rat clients has entered the top 90 spenders in the practice in the last 6months! The top 100 list has traditionally been made up of dog/cat breders and clients with elderly dogs on chronic meds, so maybe it's a sign of the times...

Re: Mass in a rat

Mark Rowland — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:01:00 GMT

I like rats. My clients like that i like rats. I would say that most are happy for me to remove tumours from them because they like their rats too. I wish I speyed more rats because It would help with the mammary tumours. Non mammary masses tend to be agressive sadly so in this case to answer the question, I would predict that it's weeks max . Just kep up the pain relief (free download on exotic animal analgesia on website below)

Goodluck.

Re: Mass in a rat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:48:04 GMT

Given the natural lifespan of the rat, the majority of owners see no point in the expense of surgery, and I am inclined to agree.

Re: Mass in a rat

Rachael Winder — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:09:48 GMT

I agree, there won't be treatment etc but am just interested as I tend to only see mammary masses. My experience of rat masses is actually that they do well after surgery (though as I say these are mammary masses on the whole). The mammary masses are usually benign though they can get very large if you leave them, and I've never had one recur. Mice tend to be the other way round though I find.

I was curious as to what to expect in terms of timespan etc- the rate it is growing at currently, I'm figuring weeks before PTS, though it isn't currently painful (normal gait, activity, no reaction to palpation of area etc).

Re: Mass in a rat

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:18:38 GMT

In my experience rats are prone to develop any kind of tumour and I have to agree with Martin, the outcome is usually not good/long lasting. Just a minute ago I have put a rat down with the most nastiest looking testical (or at least it seemed to have its origin there) tumour. I am Dr. Death this week, bodies litter my way so far.

Re: Mass in a rat

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:53:46 GMT

Quite frankly its not worth treating any tumours in rats, most seem to be malignant and whatever you do they recurr or you get mets within a month.

Re: Mass in a rat

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:32:33 GMT

If it looks like an osteosarcoma on the rads, it probably is, or something related. If you are that curious see if you can persuade the owner to let you do a Pm when the time comes, and take a sample for histology.

All types of tumour can occur in all types of animals, but this isn't one I've come across before either, and we see a fair amount of rats. Many rat owners are willing to spend money on diagnostics, and you might be able to get a reduced histo fee for an 'interest ' case