Bull nose rings

Re: Bull nose rings

Busybee — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:53:51 GMT

Well, I ended up doing them today! Two young bulls, actually very well behaved and even halter trained After rummaging around the depths of the surgery this morning I turned up a hole punch, old rumen cannula and pliers so fully kitted out! I decided to use local and in these guys anyway they barely twitched. The only problem came when using the punch and it didn't quite go all the way through - it left a small flap of septum across. Luckily the rumen cannula sorted that (and put a very pretty star-shaped hole in my right palm when I wasn't quick enough to move it out of the way!), then put the ring through which was a bit tricky as it kept catching on the 'shoulder' just behind the point on the ring. Screws went in fine. And yes, quite a bit of blood everywhere! I did finish up with blue spray but I think I was spoiled with these guys being so well behaved. Perfect for my first attempt!

Re: Bull nose rings

Alan Tevendale — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:54:41 GMT

Can't say I've ever used local for this. A good punch is essential but as previously stated they will last for decades. Again our set are as old as the hills. The most important issue is appropriate restraint. Makes this an easy job - bad restraint would make for a very difficult job.

Re: Bull nose rings

Bob Russell — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:49:58 GMT

I used to squeeze cotton wool soaked in local anaesthetic each side (at the same time). I held it in place for as long as possible, usually chatting about the latest football results/ TV /Gossip. I will probably be told after all these years that this was homeopathic but it seemed to work!

Quite right about the snot and blood - it will go everywhere.

Re: Bull nose rings

Wren — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:30:30 GMT

As Michael said - I do loads and loads. No local, no abx spray, no problems. Wear a waterproof top for the inevitable shower of bull snot/blood when it blows out its nose after!

Our hole punchers are older than me (possibly Herriot era) and work perfectly well. Fab bit of kit! Bizarrely a job I really enjoy.

Re: Bull nose rings

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:39:57 GMT

As has been said really. When I use the punch after closing the handles I move them up and down to make a better hole. Don't bother with local - tried once and the bull resented that more than the ring. Too big a ring and they get caught - wants to sit inside the nose without impinging but a 3" ring in a little bull will do no good. I used to spray with antibiotic spray afterwards but they don't like that either so have stopped.

TAKE SPARE RINGS! I once did the unthinkable and took a single ring and we dropped the screw in the straw and lost it. That 15 minutes waiting for a colleague to bring a new ring out was one of the longest in my career!

It's actually quite easy and the slowest part can be getting the bull in the crush!

Re: Bull nose rings

Nicola Lawlor — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:19:16 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

Is this something others have seen or a load of c**p?

[/quote]

or perhaps a load of old bull?

(PS have no idea!)

Re: Bull nose rings

Mark Rowland — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:50:10 GMT

I loved my rope halter when I was doing large animal medicine. It was the one piece of kit I wouldnt lend out! A tip I was taught while seeing practice was to send the farmer away. It may be an old wives tale but I was told (and its happened to me) that the bull stops struggling for a while and just looks at you (I was told to remember you... a bit like moby dick). The vet I was seeing practice with didnt want the farmer to be associated with the bulls bad experience. Is this something others have seen or a load of c**p?

Re: Bull nose rings

Busybee — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:33:25 GMT

Wow, thanks guys! very helpful! Ill have to have a ferret around for a punching tool - we do have rumen trochars but the last couple haven't been very sharp.

Re: Bull nose rings

midlandsvet973 — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:27:08 GMT

ditto!

Re: Bull nose rings

Robert Whiteford — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:26:10 GMT

Maybe just one point - use a strong rope halter and not a headcollar. Headcollars are not as strong and do not grip the head like a rope halter for secure restraint.....as an aside this is something that is not used enough in horses either....take the weak headcollar off and put on a strong rope halter......first rule of animal handling!

Re: Bull nose rings

midlandsvet973 — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:25:36 GMT

I've only done it a couple of times so not got a lot of experience but from what I found...make sure the bull is well restrained, crush + head yoke, also I found getting the farmer to halter it and wrap the rope round the crush to stop it chucking its head around makes it easier. I'm sure that goes without saying really but one farmer did think I could do it with just a halter on his bull! I didn't use local but I suppose you probably should if you can. To be honest by the time I'd localled it I could have fitted the ring. We don't have a proper ringer thing so we use a bradle, feel the septum until you get to the softer thinner part but before the cartilage. I put the bradle through with my right hand then once I've made a hole thread the ring through from the other side. Tighten the screw to lock it and I then snap the remaining bit off screw off with pliers. Good luck, it was easier than I expected it to be. Think its even easier if you've got the right kit.

Re: Bull nose rings

Robert Whiteford — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:20:22 GMT

Sorry - more or less just what Sarah said above. I'm too slow at typing and my fingers are too thick to just get one key at a time!

Re: Bull nose rings

Robert Whiteford — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:17:53 GMT

The bull needs to be properly restrained.
Check the ring that is presented to you is big enough but not too big for the bull and try the screw to make sure it threads correctly. Best to have a selection of rings to hand.
Make sure the nose punch is sharp.
A good solid crush or crate with reliable yoke.
A strong rope halter is also required unless the bull is going to reliable hang back in the yoke and thus stabilize his head.
Inject 2mls of local using a small needle into the depression in the nasal septum just behind the philtrum where you would normally grab a cattlebeast for restraint. Insert in one side and push through while injecting to the other side.
Wait for a minute or two.
Locate the punch gently into the depression you have anesthetized then very forcibly punch out the tunnel for the ring.
Immediately insert and close the selected ring.
Cover ring with Hibiscrub and rotate it once to ascertain that it moves freely.

If organised it is a five minute job. If not there can be pain and tears (thats for you not the bull!)

Re: Bull nose rings

Sarah Wheeler — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:16:07 GMT

It's one of those jobs that seems really easy but can be tricky! The right restraint is vital; crush and head collar with the head up and to the bull's head pulled round to the right (I'm right handed). I always blind fold the bulls with a towel tucked into the headcollar. Usually that calms the bull but if necessary I'll use a second headcollar or even sedate the bull if he's really nasty. I will confess that I never use local as I've found it upsets the bull more than anything. We have a punch to make the hole; place it in the nose and pull it well forward so you are cutting through the soft part of the septum and not anywhere near the cartilage. If you put the ring into the cartilage it will be extremely sensitive and it will probably make the bull wild. I find it too hard to make the hole with the ring and in a pinch I have used a rumen trocar, pushed through the septum to make the hole. Then push the ring through, close it, and screw in the pin till it snaps off. I then spray the nose and the ring with blue spray.

Re: Bull nose rings

Claire McConnell — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:49:45 GMT

No personal experience I'm afraid but would expect you would want injectable as intubeze for example is only going to do superficial skin.