Rodentologists

RE: Rodentologists

Bob Russell — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:26:12 GMT

If this lady is acting illegally then prosecution would presumably be via the Police and CPS. The RCVS should be supporting (also reporting perhaps) such contraventions and assisting with the prosecution as they did with Mr Keniry.

They may not be the primary responsible body and have no direct power over non-vets but do have a place in ensuring animal welfare.

I suspect the VMD did not consider a prosecution to be worthwhile considering the costs involved. Failure to comply should result in prosecution.

RE: Rodentologists

Niall Taylor — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:49:16 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]This particular lady appears to be carrying out acts of veterinary surgery in clear contravention of the Veterinary Surgeons Act. Very much RCVS territory I would have thought[/quote]

I don't believe that is correct - RCVS is the governing body for UK vets, this lady isn't a vet, ergo RCVS has no role. This is a matter for the police, or other authorities like HSE or trading standards, possibly even RSPCA. But the problem in most cases like this is the punters are usually quite happy with the service they are being offered and will never come forward as witnesses. Same with homeopaths and other pseudo-medical practitioners, if they are persuasive and charismatic enough they will always keep owners on board, no matter how badly things would seem to have gone wrong to an impartial observer - 'at least we tried our best', 'there was nothing more we could have done', 'at least she was spared those toxic drugs in her last days' - I can just hear it.

Niall

RE: Rodentologists

Harriet Nicholson — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:25:06 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Did you report the radiography to the HSE to check they have registered their premises?

[/quote]

I didn't but I did report to the RCVS lawyers.....

RE: Rodentologists

Iain Richards — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:22:38 GMT

I'd like to know why a, "Notice to Improve" was issued and not a prosecution. Also as the VMD will have evidence of supply/prescribing, is that not enough for RCVS? As I understand it most cases against quacks fail because of the lack of a witness.

I will go for the cheap hit here, are these the sort of people those in the RCVS wanting a new Vet Services Act would be willing to allow within vet-led team? It seems this is what the public wants, which was, for a time, part of the RCVS consumerist advice. So who are we to stand in the way of the public?

RE: Rodentologists

Bob Russell — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 11:09:27 GMT

The RCVS has decided to take the stand that they are there to protect clients and patients from rogue veterinary surgeons.

What a shame it does not mean they are protecting clients, patients and veterinary surgeons from rogue pseudovets. This particular lady appears to be carrying out acts of veterinary surgery in clear contravention of the Veterinary Surgeons Act. Very much RCVS territory I would have thought. That said this organisation failed to stop someone masquerading as a veterinary surgeon for some years.

Did you report the radiography to the HSE to check they have registered their premises?

RE: Rodentologists

Harriet Nicholson — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:53:25 GMT

The RCVS have some supplied evidence of radiography done by a rodentologist obtained by myself and even with that I believe they still haven't done anything. It's so frustrating

RE: Rodentologists

Bob Russell — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:11:08 GMT

Quote from the British Association of Rodentologists:

"These days, many veterinary practices do have a qualified Rodentologist within their staff, often a vet nurse who has trained with us"

Really???

These people are so full of bull!

What a shame it took the VMD to take action rather than a prosecution for illegal veterinary practice or under welfare legislation.

Where are the RSPCA when they are really needed?

RE: Rodentologists

Robert FalconerTaylor — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 08:06:42 GMT

Here's one potentially permanent solution...

"IMPORTANT NOTICE

Vedra is highly allergic to any variety of woodshavings and sawdust, resulting in anaphylactic shock. Therefore it is ESSENTIAL that you tell Vedra in advance of your appointment if your guinea pigs have been kept on woodshavings/sawdust. Guinea pigs kept on these beddings should be shampooed first providing they are well enough. If they are too poorly to shampoo please still bring them and they will be seen by another member of staff. Please bring them in on newspaper topped with either Vetbed, fleece or towels."

From http://www.cambridgecavytrust.org.uk/

RE: Rodentologists

grumpyoldman — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 22:46:58 GMT

We have them regularly disappearing off to have dentals because of the GA issue, the quacks doing it without is also a lot cheaper. That maybe the size of it really. It is encroaching too much and they are definitely prescribing illegally as well as inventing qualifications. Poking around abdomens taking aspirates of god knows what without ultrasound guidance or GA then finding not surprisingly mixed bacterial populations and a few cells ,sometimes inflammatory confidently diagnosing peritonitis pancreatitis etc on smears without staining them ????. No external labs involved of course . They are full of shite but in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is god particularly if he is confident and cheap.

RE: Rodentologists

Rob Loxley — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 18:45:13 GMT

Thread necromancy, but I was encouraged to see the VMD taking some action over one group (http://www.cambridgecavytrust.org.uk/) linked to the BAR:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/animal-medicines-improvement-notice-cambridge-cavy-trust

Re: Rodentologists

Gerry Henry — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:11:03 GMT

Is that a dictaphone in ya pocket or are ya just pleased to see me?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re: Rodentologists

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:57:23 GMT

Have none of us got a rodent we could take for a 'consultation'? Hidden camera or even Dictaphone in your pocket.

Re: Rodentologists

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:05:46 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"] I don't agree that lay people should be doing conscious dentals in rodents but is this illegal?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]The equine dentist situation muddies the water somewhat.[/quote]

No it doesn't. I haven't the time or the energy to go into it all, all over again, right now, but if anything the equine dental technicians' situation just emphasises the illegality of the "rodentologist" mucking about with teeth. (There is no such thing as an equine dentist )

[/quote]

Interesting, thank you. I will log each time I see one of these cases then and if we all do similar then we have at least some form of information to pass on to RCVS and push for action.

Marie

Re: Rodentologists

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:02:13 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"] I don't agree that lay people should be doing conscious dentals in rodents but is this illegal?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]The equine dentist situation muddies the water somewhat.[/quote]

Re: Rodentologists

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:49:32 GMT

I've seen a few cases 'treated' by these people.

Some are clearly illegal - lump removal, providing prescription medications etc etc but I struggle with the dental aspect - I don't agree that lay people should be doing conscious dentals in rodents but is this illegal? The equine dentist situation muddies the water somewhat.

Marie

Re: Rodentologists

Mark Holmes — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:12:36 GMT

The next student we have in that doesn't make it into the vet course I will console with " Never mind, why don't you become a fully qualified rodentologist" we'll see what happens!

Re: Rodentologists

Rob Loxley — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:05:35 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Any legal action would have to be concerned with specific provable deeds[/quote]

Hey you could use covert CCTV to film illegal acts and get the government to act; you could even extend this to abbatoirs... :)

Re: Rodentologists

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:39:25 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

Have considered approaching my MP about this, but would need to be clear on what aspects of the BAR/rodentologists activities are definitely infringing the VSA.

[/quote]

In the case that started this: carrying out an act or acts of veterinary surgery while not a veterinary surgeon (VSA). Causing unnecessary suffering (AWA).

Any legal action would have to be concerned with specific provable deeds, not with what these people claim on their websites.

Re: Rodentologists

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 22:00:39 GMT

I did think about finding out who this barbarian is, and shopping them. but then the waiting room filled up, and i was preoccupied with lovely people with puppies and kittens and all the miriad joys of private practice as a GP.

I doubt very much that the RSPCA or the police would give a rampant toss. In my experience the RSPCA as an organisation is only interested in political capital, and the police are more interested in setting up speed traps in remote unpopulated areas, and shooting unarmed people.

Re: Rodentologists

Rob Loxley — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 13:13:40 GMT

Have considered approaching my MP about this, but would need to be clear on what aspects of the BAR/rodentologists activities are definitely infringing the VSA.

Re: Rodentologists

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:56:19 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]MANUALLY EXPRESSED A BLADDER STON[/quote]

Would the RSPCA be able to do anything about this?

[/quote]

Nope, can't be bothered!

[/quote]

At least two laws good and solidly broken. When we had a Protection of Animals (Anaesthetic) Act it would have been three.

Ah well.

By the way, people like that are a good reason to not open the Veterinary Surgeons Act: 'cos if you do, they will be angling for special legal status, and they might even get it.

Re: Rodentologists

Bob Russell — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:44:49 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]MANUALLY EXPRESSED A BLADDER STON[/quote]

Would the RSPCA be able to do anything about this?

[/quote]

Nope, can't be bothered!

Re: Rodentologists

Mark Rowland — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:43:56 GMT

Go on lets do something, lets write an open letter to a newspaper or something. They slag us off enough, ??? Who would sign??? Mabee the new vets union would back it up, im sure they would love a cause to champion. Me he he he he.

Re: Rodentologists

Louise6732 — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:27:36 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]MANUALLY EXPRESSED A BLADDER STON[/quote]

Would the RSPCA be able to do anything about this?

Re: Rodentologists

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:58:25 GMT

I saw a guinea pig this morning, as an urgent fit-in. Owner has never brought this animal to us before, it is one of four guinea pigs she owns.

She saw a 'rodentologist' last Friday because this piggie had hematuria. the rodentologist diagnosed bladder stones and MANUALLY EXPRESSED A BLADDER STONE.. by the sounds of it, fairly small, and as it was 6 days ago I hope no real physical damage like rupturing has occurred but my jaw hit the floor.

The reason i saw the pig this morning was because she had started bleeding - apparently again, though i believe more accurately still. On examination there is frank hematuria, possible some incontinence, and small firm bladder that is painful. i asked about analgesia, apparently some ointment was applied. don't know what.

Words utterly fail me at this point. I did point out to the owner that what the rodentologist had done was brutal and illegal. Due to see piggie back Monday, wonder if she'll keep the appointment.....