has fipronil had its day?

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 17:16:23 GMT

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]

If a cat is prone to picking up ticks, I usually recommed clients keep a small bottle of frontline spray and a tick remover to hand, (although I think vodka would probably work as well).

[/quote]

I thought you weren't supposed to put alcohol on ticks as it causes them to regurgitate and increases the risk of disease transmission?

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:14:19 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Gareth C."]

re kids and nits, do you use spray and how often? i've not yet resorted to it

[/quote]

One treatment left overnight seems to deal with the problem. Works a treat so we have a bottle at home. I am, of course not suggesting that anyone should apply a POM animal product to themselves or their children. That would be very naughty indeed!

[/quote]

I assume it works for Crabs as well! Given the need for additional revenue I might take a van load down the Aberdeen docks!

PS I don't need any anecdotes thanks

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:12:15 GMT

To be honest I am not suprised, I haven't seen it in Aberdeen but given the amount of time its been available, the rapidity that you would expect any resistance to spread and the numbers of dogs with sub thereaputic levels its a wonder we haven't seen it before.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Bob Russell — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:10:53 GMT

[quote user="Gareth C."]

re kids and nits, do you use spray and how often? i've not yet resorted to it

[/quote]

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Bob Russell — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:05:52 GMT

We have had plenty of failures (almost exclusively in cats), where Frontline has been purchased (and I have no reason to believe was not applied) from us over long and regular periods and found cats to be heaving with fleas.

Same cats three months later using Promeris, absolutely clear of fleas and flea dirt. Fleas will be back if treatment stopped at this stage because of environmental elements to the life cycle so a few non-compliant owners have to learn a lesson!

Is it (or its many copies) worth bothering with? Not in my opinion. Merial are very good at explaining why it does not work. If you use better products no explanation is required!!

No I have not sent in yellow forms, I don't have enough hours in the day to complete one for every failure. I have let the Merial reps know though!

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Catherine Williams — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:49:59 GMT

We've had problems with Frontline around our area for at least 18mths, one of the reasons we've switched to advocate (plus the emergence of lots of lungworm last summer). Not sure why it's not working for us. checked doses, even administered it ourselves, not working. Merial didn't agree that there was any resistance but couldn't explain our problems. I just can't recommend something that I'm not confident will work in the majority of cases

At the moment it's pretty much - itchy dog, "what flea control are you using" "Frontline" "well you've got fleas then"

and so many clients seem to now proudly say "we're using the good stuff, "spot on"" - cue bang head on wall in exasperation

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Gareth C. — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:25:11 GMT

re kids and nits, do you use spray and how often? i've not yet resorted to it

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Tanya Fielding — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:08:23 GMT

still rate frontline very highly when the kids bring nits home

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Amanda Nicholls — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 11:55:30 GMT

I have found on my own cat that using frontline combo every 2 weeks works well but any longer between treatments and I do see fleas on him, hence I don't sell any fipronil products in the clinic because it works out cheaper for the client to use advantage/advocate/srtonghold monthly which does appear to work. (The frontline I am using on my cat was free when I first opened and I haven't been able to give it away, even to the local cat charity!)

Re ticks - advocate appears to work as well as frontline, not sure what the reason is for not having a license. If a cat is prone to picking up ticks, I usually recommed clients keep a small bottle of frontline spray and a tick remover to hand, (although I think vodka would probably work as well).

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 01:11:43 GMT

I have lost faith in fipronil, it is impossible to defend at this point. i'm happy to defend effective products like stronghold, advocate, capstar, program - but you have to make sure clients know what to expect. Nothing short of arson will get all the fleas all at once. and new fleas hatch every day - it takes 3 months minimum to clear an infestation, and you have to explain this, along with finding a way to avoid offense.

I'm surprised there are still vets who find fipronil adequate. But then I have clients who are happy with Bob Martins flea collars....go figure.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Anne Seawright — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:17:05 GMT

What about the 'pupal window' effect? I read several recent (impartial) reports that stated if a house has had a flea infestation for several months before adequate treatment it can take several more months with adequate environmental and pet treatment to get it under control. This is due to there being no product that effectively kills the pupae, so adult fleas have to emerge, jump onto the animal and feed before they will die with a small number of fleas still emerging almost a year later. You can easily see why people assume that flea treatment isn't working.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 22:15:13 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

Fipronil is the only safe licensed product to deal with ticks on cats. how big a deal this is - in the UK, probably none. in australia, very big deal due to tick paralysis - in Oz it has to be used every 2 weeks for tick control, this is on the Australian license. I'm sure it worlks a lot better on fleas at that dose rate too. Just doubles the price.

Comfortis has numerous issues, to do with concurrent medication, it's dogs only, and not every dog can have it....I did discuss it with our diplomate derm lady and she felt it had its place but was not a miracle product by any means

[/quote]

High dose ivermectin and spinosad are a no no, i understand, what are some other ones?

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Martin Jones — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:36:08 GMT

I love that the Merial rep has found out how to use the star rating system........

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Noweia — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:25:26 GMT

I find Frontline useless for ticks. My cat was a Cats Protection cat, came in with a collar injury and boarded with us for 6 weeks before I adopted him. Everything gets Frontline Combo on arrival. 2 weeks later when he was running around my flat (hadn't let him out yet) I found a rather icky tick on his tail that had clearly been there the full 8 weeks!

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:23:07 GMT

Off on a tangent slightly, but I had a troublesome ants nest in my home earlier in the year which several commercial products failed to eradicate. When I finally bought a Fipronil based product the nest was gone within 24 hrs with no further signs of, must be fairly potent?

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:32:54 GMT

I've used it, had very good feedback. The ones that have fleas no longer have fleas; the ones it doesn't help don't have fleas, full stop, and you can completely rule that out and get other diff diagnoses. Don't need to wrestle with the client that they "need to be more patient" before the rest of the fleas die.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

James Laidlaw — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:21:21 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]

Do you report your 'failures' to Merial or fill out a SARS sheet?

[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. I'm yet to see a "failure" that I don't think can be explained by inadequate treatments/"a gap in the plan"

Fipronil still kills fleas - I haven't had a case where it doesn't

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:06:50 GMT

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Utlendigur — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:04:40 GMT

When the first murmurings of fipronil not working started I was skeptical, but I've seen probably 6-8 animals this week where it doesn't seem to have worked - often very obviously. Hopefully i've asked the right questions and in all cases the frontline has been applied properly, within the timeframe for it to be working, they have treated the house and any other places the pet might spend time eg car, shed, garage (and even repeated this), treated all the pets in the house etc etc. I did think I should fill in SARS forms but the number of them was getting silly.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:17:22 GMT

Any thoughts on the new Comfortis tablet - details in the post today? Haven't read all the literature, although slightly worried that ALT levels are elevated for a short time after administration, although no sign of contraindication in dogs with liver disease.

I don't yet know the cost - didn't look that up.

We have had a few Fipronil failures, but not that many so far.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:05:04 GMT

Is there anything other than Frontline spray licensed for use in young kittens or puppies?

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Louise6732 — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:54:02 GMT

[quote user="Gareth C."]

just had another fipronil-failure case in since I posted the thread...

[/quote]

Do you report your 'failures' to Merial or fill out a SARS sheet?

I don't think it is failing, having attended a CPD (admittedly held by Merial but hear me out!) I believe clients are becoming more complacent about fleas, and that their expectations are becoming higher, and there are so many places fleas can be picked up that even these 'passengers' can be seen as a failure by some people, when in fact they will die. There are also many other factors why we still see fleas, it doesn't mean that the product isn't working.

Merial are more than happy to discuss 'failures' with clients. I find that if you ask the right questions you will find the answer as to why fleas are still present.

Has anyone had any clients using 'Capstar' or the pet shop equivalent? I had a Maine Coon come in extermely dyspnoeic 2hrs post administration, I actually couldn't believe how many fleas were coming off the cat, it was crazy! It seemed to be extremely effective! We think the dyspnoea was brought on by the irritation of the fleas, apparently cats groom excessively after administering the tablet.

Louise

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Richard Carter — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:33:32 GMT

Have been told today by a rep that the 'Pets at home' group have a generic fipronil product as well.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:18:21 GMT

I think it has had its day. I tend to use it for harvest mites and ticks only really.

Re: has fipronil had its day?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:17:41 GMT

Fipronil spray has its uses I confess, it is great for knocking down fleas instantly when they're crawling in the spay wound of a charity cat spay! Or maybe its just the alcohol excipient thats made them pissed.