Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Busybee — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 15:45:27 GMT

Just got our rescue cat insured with PetPlan and got a 20% discount cos I'm a vet.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Alex Gough — Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:47:04 GMT

My dogs are insured with Petplan, and given over the last 12 months one has had both a ventral slot at Willows, and a TECA-Bo done here, I have got good value for money!

alex

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Amanda Nicholls — Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:20:01 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Why not insure your employees' pets as part of a package? Employees and their pets benefit from the insurance, practice sets the payments against tax, and the practice benefits from being able to charge for procedures.

Any obvious reason not to do this?

[/quote]

We pay for 2 pets to be insured per employee (usually pet plan) and for consultations/treatments that aren't being claimed for we discount the bill by 80%. They can buy food etc at list price + VAT. I think it helps to reinforce the insurance is necessary message!

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Julian Earl — Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:00:53 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Why not insure your employees' pets as part of a package?[/quote]

It might not be seen as fair if someone has 5 cats, 3 dogs, 2 horses and a parrot and gets much more benefit than someone who has one cat?
Employees will be taxed as a benefit-in-kind?

We get private medical cover and can add family members (getting the discount rate) but have to pay for this.

[/quote]

Well, you don't have to insure all of them. Insurance up to a value of £x per month?

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

A token charge is made for everything to ensure costs are covered and it cannot be seen by HMRC as a benefit in kind.

[/quote]

How does HMRC get to know someone has had free treatment unless there is a whistle blower in the practice?

[/quote]

Perhaps they visit this site.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:49:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]How does HMRC get to know someone has had free treatment unless there is a whistle blower in the practice?[/quote]

Um, they will pore over the details during a PAYE audit/inspection. And the penalties and backdating of tax can produce large bills.

AFAIK vets are targetted for such inspections more frequently as we've had a historically high level of benefits - accomodation, cars, bills paid etc.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:46:06 GMT

If you have a tax inspection they can look at what the staff have spent with you. They either have the healthiest animals in the world, are going somewhere else or are getting free treatemt. Then they only need to start asking questions

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:33:38 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

A token charge is made for everything to ensure costs are covered and it cannot be seen by HMRC as a benefit in kind.

[/quote]

How does HMRC get to know someone has had free treatment unless there is a whistle blower in the practice?

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

plantagenet — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:05:04 GMT

I am obliged to charge VAT on everything I sell - even at a reduced rate, surely. The tax I charge I then pass on to the government, who waste it.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:24:03 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]+ VAT[/quote]

Why?

Don't you claim it back??

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:37:43 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Why not insure your employees' pets as part of a package?[/quote]

It might not be seen as fair if someone has 5 cats, 3 dogs, 2 horses and a parrot and gets much more benefit than someone who has one cat?
Employees will be taxed as a benefit-in-kind?

We get private medical cover and can add family members (getting the discount rate) but have to pay for this.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Julian Earl — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:13:05 GMT

Any obvious reason not to do this?

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 22:17:13 GMT

[quote user="Claire Edgington"]Totally agree Louise. When you are an employee, it's can get a bit more expensive, especially for long term conditions. My terrier is atopic and the practice I used to work at only gave us a 20% discount on drugs. I also had to pay for surgeons time (even if I did it in my own time). As you can imagine, without petplan, it would have been very expensive.[/quote]

If the practice only gave you 20% discount on drugs why not start a wholesaler account or write a prescription yourself? Even drugs at list price + VAT the practice makes the wholesaler discount and any rebate.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

plantagenet — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:30:49 GMT

My staff get meds and food at cost + VAT and my time for nothing.

Their families and ex staff (if I still like them) get a bit of a discount but then they are jolly good free advertising.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Rachael Winder — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:11:00 GMT

my cats are both insured. I get a discount on everything at work and obviously don't charge for time etc. However I work for a 4centre mixed practice with a large number of staff having horses and over 30staff. Can't see us all getting tx for free...

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:23:57 GMT

[quote user="Claire Edgington"]surgeons time (even if I did it in my own time)[/quote]

Jeepers, I knew some employers were mean, but.................

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:18:41 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]the possiblity of urethral obstruction, bills for that can be eye-watering![/quote]

Hmmm.... as recent other threads have indicated, one has to consider why....................

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:14:28 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"] I'm happy to set an example, but if I don't get meds at cost plus VAT I'll go online for them - often cheaper![/quote]

What example would that be then? That clients should expect to pay larger fees if they aren't prepared to buy drugs at their practice? Oh yes....you don't pay fees do you....

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:27:18 GMT

Our practice is pretty large - 7 branches and an awful lot of people, vets, receptionists, cleaners, trainee nurses, animal health assistants (pre trainee nurses) , Saturday girls, and some admin people...all in all probably more than a hundred people considering many are part time. No way everyone can have free treatment. I'm happy to set an example, but if I don't get meds at cost plus VAT I'll go online for them - often cheaper!

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:52:34 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]I treat my staffs animals for free and they don't even have to pay for medication[/quote]

yeah - be careful with this. It could be seen as a benefit in kind and the tax man can be very harsh! I also assume you are a small practice - with 15 employees (and their relatives animals) I would be a long way out of pocket!!!! I would strongly recommend you set down a policy BEFORE it is needed - having an 'everything is free' policy may lead to issues one day when ,as inevitably happens, somebody starts to push the boundaries just that bit to far.

We charge cost +VAT +10% for drugs and materials, consult fees are usually FOC with ops at 50%. Exceptions are sometimes made but that is the policy.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Bob Russell — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 11:28:45 GMT

We charge at cost plus VAT for staff (at least on paper). A token charge is made for everything to ensure costs are covered and it cannot be seen by HMRC as a benefit in kind.

Staff here do insure but this is to cover the costs should referral be appropriate. One nurses cat has had two MRI's!! Miserable bugger is still alive and kicking (cat not nurse although nurse is still alive as well).

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Dagmar Steele — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 10:33:41 GMT

totally agree! I treat my staffs animals for free and they don't even have to pay for medication (have to say that so far I did not employ a breeder though...) but one of them has an atopic dog. I find it embarrassing how much some of my colleagues want from their staff... it may be okay to charge for meds, but examination fees???? In my own animals I can do most things myself, the rest is done by my referral center and they are very kind, they usually do it for cost or even less.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 10:16:13 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I am still amazed that vets insure their own pets. The biggest majority of problems we can fix ourselves for cost.

[/quote]

I've given you 5 stars and concur Michael. What I can't fix 'aint worth fixing, cost of ongoing medication is probably less than premiums, excess and % of claim taken by company. I treat my nursing staff's pets FOC and they get medication at cost unless they're taking the mickey - I had one nurse with 5 breeding bitches that constantly rerquired caesarians so some ground rules had to be laid on that one. When I was an assistant I was allowed to treat my pets FOC also. Some of you who have to pay need to have words with your employers.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Tedders — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 09:46:30 GMT

Thank you all for your replies. A few years ago I wouldn't have had to ask, it would have been Petplan all the way but they do seem extremely expensive now plus I have heard a few negative things about them from clients. The fact that Argos allow you to reduce premiums by hoiking up the excess (to £165) was very appealing until I read that they might be the new E&L!!

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

Claire Edgington — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 09:07:03 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I am still amazed that vets insure their own pets. The biggest majority of problems we can fix ourselves for cost.

[/quote]

Depends how flush you are

Like some others who've commented, I'm no orthopod and if my cat had fractures etc, I'd rather have it fixed properly than attempt a botch job myself! Ortho issues are one of the main reasons I have insurance, that and the possiblity of urethral obstruction, bills for that can be eye-watering!

[/quote]

Totally agree Louise. When you are an employee, it's can get a bit more expensive, especially for long term conditions. My terrier is atopic and the practice I used to work at only gave us a 20% discount on drugs. I also had to pay for surgeons time (even if I did it in my own time). As you can imagine, without petplan, it would have been very expensive.

Re: Who are YOUR pets insured with?

plantagenet — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:33:06 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]The biggest majority of problems we can fix ourselves for cost.[/quote]

But not all, like all insurances, I hope not to use it.

My own dog is on ongoing meds which I charge to the insurance company, although I do include my staff discount and do not charge consultations.