Stone eating tortoise

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Louise6732 — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 23:38:32 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="SteveOwen"]

Ah the importance of the hyphen! I was curious about this curious stone that was going around eating tortoises for a minute!

[/quote]

Yes indeed - I thought at first it might refer to Keith Richards getting upto to something odd again - I had heard about him snorting his father's ashes by mistake, thinking they were cocaine, but surely not eating a tortoise!

[/quote]

Re: Stone eating tortoise

bob lehner — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:45:56 GMT

[quote user="SteveOwen"]

Ah the importance of the hyphen! I was curious about this curious stone that was going around eating tortoises for a minute!

[/quote]

Re: Stone eating tortoise

SteveOwen — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 10:36:16 GMT

Ah the importance of the hyphen! I was curious about this curious stone that was going around eating tortoises for a minute!

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Mark Holmes — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:14:09 GMT

We have done various laparotomies on tortoises. Mainly for bladder stones but GI surgery looks straight forward. The gut is similar in thickness and texture to that of a cat. Could you remove them?

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:39:07 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]tube feeding with baby food[/quote]

Although I wouldn't personally tube feed this tortoise (I'd worry about fibre providing the cement between the stones) I find oxbow critical care excellent for syringe feeding torties (and other herbivores). It has more fibre than baby food, much less sugar and carbohydrate, and the fine grind variety is easy to tube feed.

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care_fine

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care

You should be able to get it from your wholesaler. It isn't as cheap as baby food but it is much better, IMHO

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Mark Rowland — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:09:44 GMT

Edit: I dont think bone mineralisation is very good in this tortoise, Low ionised calcium as well as environmental factors and anorexia can cause ileus in these little guys, How old is this tort, Any history about UV provision?

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:53:10 GMT

Hard to tell image quality on a computer screen - best to do some bloods, including ionised calcium. However, if you really can't see any toes at all then that's a bad sign....

We pretty much always hospitalise all sick reptiles as often that's the only way you can guarantee correct environmental temps etc - for example, just being too cold can severely impair gut motility. Do you have a good vivarium set up in the practice?

I suppose I was being a bit flippant with my comment about going to surgery, and also assuming too much. As has been said, it is very rarely needed. You really do have to rule out any other reason before you assume this is a blockage. (For example you would be best to do lateral and AP views, with a horizontal beam, to make sure you get a complete picture of the 'blockage', check the lung fields etc.)

Having said all that, they do look like they are forming a 'brick' and may be difficult to shift medically. Fluids, more fluids and even more fluids needed. Is tortie passing urine??

Personally I'd stop force feeding and just give Vetark CCF orally instead........but we're all different eh? lol

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Mark Rowland — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:46:55 GMT

I think the stones havnt been moved because she has ileus, I would get fluids on board and do bloods now Ive seen young torts with many more stones than that do fine without surgery. I cannot see any gas filled loops to indicate an obstruction. If bloods were OK then I would think about endoscopy prior to celiotomy. Fluids, temp correction and bloods are whats needed now imho, If it were me I would continue syringe feeding also

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Louise6732 — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:42:56 GMT

Sorry the quality isn't amazing, we're not on digital yet!

The top one is the most recent, from around 2days ago. I have just noticed the she appears to have no distal limbs (!), image quality or calcium deficiency?

Louise

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:39:52 GMT

Do you know how this tortoise is housed - basically, is the husbandry just poor or completely awful?

Any other diagnostics been done yet? Any other radiographic views?

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Louise6732 — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:36:20 GMT

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:33:35 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]many torts have many stones in the git with no signs at all[/quote]

But she's said that this is an anorexic tortoise that isn't passing any faeces.......I would also ignore FBs if the tortoise is healthy BUT I have seen GI blockage in tortoises so it is possible that they ARE significant.

I would assume that all other possible causes of anorexia are ruled out first obviously.

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Mark Rowland — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:28:02 GMT

No No No dont operate yet, many torts have many stones in the git with no signs at all, I could post some rads that would make you wince but the torts passed all the stones. They are v common. What you need to do is investigate why the stones are being eaten, They are usually after calcium if they are young or reproductively active. Invetsigate the anorexia with bloods and post the rads for us to look at but please please dont operate yet.

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Louise6732 — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:44:55 GMT

I think we've only been tube feeding for a few days Gillian! Sorry to be so vague with what's been happening with it, I just realised this eve that asking for advice on here would be worthwhile!

I thought we may be looking at surgically removing the stones, luckily we have a vet at our referral branch who deals with exotics. Just wondered if there was anything obvious we had been missing before suggesting sending it to her.

The tortoise has been signed over as far as I know as the owners didn't want to /couldn't pay for any more treatment, perhaps I'll see if we have a waifs and strays pot of gold to help out with the surgery

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:35:15 GMT

oh - and I'd stop tube feeding if you've been doing it for 2 weeks with no faeces passed!

Re: Stone eating tortoise

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:34:13 GMT

Sounds like it needs surgery to me......anyone at the practice familiar with coeliotomies in tortoises?