Early neutering of cats

Re: Early neutering of cats

Kate Richardson — Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:30:04 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

It is not unusual to find apparently "open" physes even in fairly mature cats - especially neutered males and this, along with the incidence of "late" physeal fracture in cats, has interested clinical researchers over the years.

There are several papers published including Root, Johnston and Olson, 1997 Vet Rad and Ultrasound 38,1,42-47; May, Bennett and Downham 1991 JSAP 32,7,326-328 and McNicholas and colleagues 2002 JAVMA 221, 12 1731-1736.

The consensus seems to be that neutering delays physeal closure and pre-pubertal neutering delays it even more. Physeal fractures seem to be more likely in larger neutered male cats (but that data is very soft). As to the clinical importance/relevance/consequences of the observed delays in physeal closure - there doesn't seem to be much information.

[/quote]

I don't know the incidence figures for physeal fractures, but the incidence of RTAs and infectious disease such as FIV/FeLV in unneutered male cats is far higher, so whilst it is important to look at the links between neutering timing and delayed physeal closure, it has to be put into perspective.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:42:31 GMT

I won't do under 4 and 1/2 months-not so much anaesthetic risk as I hate trying to find a microscopic uterus

Wynne

Re: Early neutering of cats

Hanna Bennett — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 22:38:28 GMT

seems that the whole triple thng is a reason not to neuter young reading between the lines? we are acp/vet/ket premed then iv alfaxan induction iso maintenance and we tube everything - not had one choke but if they crash without a cannula or tube how do you get them back? - we neuter anything over 1kg and no concerns at that

Re: Early neutering of cats

vs0u — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:32:02 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]there is (in cats) a greater incidence of perioperative mortality when tubes and fluids are used/given than not. This was, as far as I understand due to over perfusion and tracheal injuries. [/quote]

In the study they didn't record why the cats that had tubes and fluids died, it could just be that sicker cats and longer procedures were more likely to get these and therefore more likely to die? therefore the riskier anaesthetic caused the tubing and fluids not the other way round.

Has anyone ever had a cat that wasn't tubed choke? I have never heard of one (although tend to tube most things apart from very quick D and T castrates, just because I like to have better control of the depth of anaesthesia).

Re: Early neutering of cats

James Laidlaw — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:17:40 GMT

What do people use for analgesia for the tiny ones? Metacam injection for cats has a data sheet recommendation not to use in cats under 2kg...?

Re: Early neutering of cats

plantagenet — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:16:32 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Spayed a 600g kitten today - anyone done lighter?[/quote]

500g - weighed more but then weed gallons.

Re: Early neutering of cats

David Mills — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:19:18 GMT

Spayed a 600g kitten today - anyone done lighter?

Re: Early neutering of cats

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:13:18 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]There was a paper written quite a while ago that showed the stats for this, real interesting read, I'll try and find a reference for it.[/quote]

This one?

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Staff/Documents/dbrodbelt_thesis.pdf

[/quote]

Yeah, thats the one. Did a lot of digging around about risks of anaesthetic related deaths and length of surgery etc for the paper I helped write, every so often I get flashbacks of useful bits from the papers I found

Re: Early neutering of cats

Colin Cameron — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:40:26 GMT

Just a few thoughts from discussions over several cups of tea!

If the neutering of cats less than 4 months of age requires the use of different and, from what we are reading of this forum, sometimes unlicensed anaesthetic agents because of the immaturity of the animal's drug excretory system where there is no real clinical justification for this early surgery, as waiting until 4 months ( the age at which we have read the animal is able to cope with "normal anaesthetic drugs") would allow the use of fully licensed drugs, how do would we be able to justify our actiions if we found ourselves in a court case following a perioperative disaster.

We are quite content to perform such operations from around 4 - 4.5 months as long as the cat is big enough ( we do a lot of charity work in this area). We have noticed that some practices are using early neutering as marketing tool and some are making rather questionable claims regarding perceived benefits. I do not believe the degree of surgical difficulty or the speed of healing has any real bearing on it as I have found very little difference whatever the age of the cat so would dispute some of the comments made. They all seem to take only a few minutes anyway and make a full and rapid recovery. At the end of the day is there some common sense where a balance is struck between very early " poor wee things" and " best get it done now before they get out and get up to mischief"? There does seem to be rather a lot of hot air being expended over what is essentially a clinical decision for the person involved, with due regard to the finer points of animal welfare, the law and common sense.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:14:18 GMT

Thanks Malcolm

This is precisely why this forum is a fantastic resource

Neil

Re: Early neutering of cats

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:15:25 GMT

Re: Early neutering of cats

plantagenet — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:23:11 GMT

Routine spays and castrates at 5-6 m by which time I hope that they are about 2kg. I have had 1 or 2 that are lighter than this recover slower, but we are now doubly careful keeping them warm and no further problems. We use DT+K with no problem and only tube females. Cat castrates are the only thing I don't glove for - need my fingernails! At this time of year I am in less of a rush to spay than in the Spring. Ferals are done when we can catch them and the record is a 0.5kg spay of about 10 weeks, quickest spay and quickest recovery ever. I didn't tube that because I was more worried about traumatising a tiny trachea. The incision was flank and the width of my forceps.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Utlendigur — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:30:50 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]There was a paper written quite a while ago that showed the stats for this, real interesting read, I'll try and find a reference for it.[/quote]

This one?

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Staff/Documents/dbrodbelt_thesis.pdf

Re: Early neutering of cats

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:43:50 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

At a recent CPD course attended by a colleague they were taught that there is (in cats) a greater incidence of perioperative mortality when tubes and fluids are used/given than not. This was, as far as I understand due to over perfusion and tracheal injuries. Not suggesting that we use neither but that on that basis there is no need to worry about tubing castrates!

[/quote]

There was a paper written quite a while ago that showed the stats for this, real interesting read, I'll try and find a reference for it.

In terms of prepubertal neutering, I find that it's important to be careful with the handling of the uterus, if have a couple of occasions where the cervix tore before I could ligate. No bleeding though!

Re: Early neutering of cats

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:17:20 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]"Nicer stronger cats" is very vague and unscientific for you Martin!!! What exactly do you mean by this? I haven't seen early neutered cats grow up to be nasty and weak...![/quote] Totally anecdotal of course but I believe that if you leave a male cat virtually to puberty but before it develops anti-social behaviour it will be a bigger stronger cat for having the benefit of its testosterone for a bit longer . True, I'm not sure if they will be any nicer although IME male cats are usually more sociable than females. Of course I could be talking bollocks (sorry couldn't resist that)!

Re: Early neutering of cats

James Laidlaw — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:28:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I spay females from 4 months, younger if they're semi-feral and I may not see them again, do them by flank. No problems with anaesthetics, no problem finding uterus - its still attached to the sub-renal fat. Males I advise 7-8 months because I truly believe they develop into nicer stronger cats but will do as young as 3-4 months if same circumstances as feral females. I always intubate everything, - unless it is physically impossible, I can't see any logic in not tubing males - they're under GA after all and subject to the same risks, equally everything goes on respiratory monitor and pulse ox.

[/quote] "Nicer stronger cats" is very vague and unscientific for you Martin!!! What exactly do you mean by this? I haven't seen early neutered cats grow up to be nasty and weak...!

Re: Early neutering of cats

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:24:09 GMT

I've been asked if this early neutering delays growth plate closure, so we will be getting longer legged cats?

Any evidence of this?

Neil

Re: Early neutering of cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 17:31:48 GMT

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]getting kittens booked in at the 2nd vaccine appointment[/quote]

The key!!

Mind you the late ones are invariably unvaccinated and anything else and won't ever be seen by a private vet again probably.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 16:50:26 GMT

Re: Early neutering of cats

Claire Fisher — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 16:20:23 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

We have been discussing this this morning in the clinic and one of our nurses, who used to work in a practice who routinely neutered 4 month old kittens, says they would advise the owners to give a small meal as early as possible on the day of the op, as they felt they did better without a full 12 hour starve.

Does anyone have any opinions on this or advise the same? The practice are considering starting to offer early neutering and are putting their protocol together.

Thanks, Cat

[/quote]

We've been early neutering since the beginning of the year and advise a small meal around 6.30am on the morning of the op and feed as soon as possible after GA.

One of our vets went to on some shelter medicine cpd and the recommended anaesthetic protocol was midazolam/buprenorphine/ketamine/medetomidine which seems to work well.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Cat Henstridge — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:47:57 GMT

Does anyone have any opinions on this or advise the same? The practice are considering starting to offer early neutering and are putting their protocol together.

Thanks, Cat

Re: Early neutering of cats

Amanda Nicholls — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:50:15 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]Would not go back to neutering older kittens and have put the price up for the over 8 months spay to £96 which seems to send the price shoppers to other (cheaper) local practices.[/quote]

How on earth do you manage this? If the owner says it is 7.5months old..??????

I can understand charging differently for weight - but age???

[/quote]

I have 2 castration prices - under 5 1/2 months and over. I used to do the same for spays but felt it was unfair on the owners that had been told by charities or breeders to get the cat spayed at 6 months so I added an extra catagory for 5 1/2 months to 8 months. The big discount (if under 5 1/2 months) is to encourage early neutering. The price list is on the website so people can say their cat is younger than it is and you are right I wouldn't know the difference between 7 1/2 and 8 1/2 months and that is not really the point, it's about getting kittens booked in at the 2nd vaccine appointment and on the whole it works well.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:24:18 GMT

How on earth do you manage this? If the owner says it is 7.5months old..??????

I can understand charging differently for weight - but age???

Re: Early neutering of cats

Clive Ansell — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 13:14:32 GMT

Agree. I don't intubate cat castrates, but do for almost all other procedures.

One of my regular practices like to, therefore I do so just to go with the flow and keep the peace, but it usually takes longer to place the tube and an iv catheter than to castrate the thing.

Re: Early neutering of cats

Mark Holmes — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 13:10:33 GMT