Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

James Laidlaw — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:46:05 GMT

Completely. Thanks Richard, might start doing this from now on with the less obviously marginated lumpectomies!

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Richard Fox — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:49:03 GMT

Inked margins should be done by the surgeon but can be done before the sample is cut in the lab (is usually done when big pieces if tissue do not fit in a std cassette). My main point was that if you want to know which margin is which then the margins should be marked either with the ink or with a suture etc. Formalin fixation has to be undertaken before we process the tissue. If the sample it a bit big then the sample can be incised (not carved up) to aid penetration. If the sample is too big then it can be cut up but again this is where the inking process is even more useful.

You can't really mess things up - just pat dry the margin tissue then use the marking dye sparingly (you can also pat it dry) then immerse it in the formalin. Do not use normal writing ink as its water soluble.

Does this make sense?

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

James Laidlaw — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:37:05 GMT

Do pathologists not routinely this once fixed then? Can you mess anything up by doing it pre-fixing?

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Richard Fox — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:01:37 GMT

Damp the tissue so dryish (can be done also when fixed).

Then paint on (its not too runny) with a little stick you get with it - like a BBQ wooden skewer.

you can use different colours if you wish but I would say the darker ones are best (red and yellow ) are less easy to see:

http://www.cellpath.co.uk/docs/BDDocument.asp?Action=VIEW&ID={EE26E4DC-2F36-4B2C-9202-AAE8E8CBE939}

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

James Laidlaw — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:44:48 GMT

What ink is best Richard - where to get it and how exactly to apply it too (I fear I may end up staining more than the nurses would put up with - ie: benches/walls/sinks etc!)

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Richard Fox — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:05:02 GMT

Sorry crossed wires there me thinks

Well that's fine then

For the record (talking generally ) as a pathologist, I usually quote at the very least the approximate size of the narrowest margin , usually the deep margin, of excision. Unfortunately the true size of the margins cannot be made as the tissue shrinks in formalin and also changes size on processing and cutting so...... BTW if a vet submits a mass and requires and exact measurement of the margins put it on the form? Also ink the margins to help the pathologist? Just a thought?

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Judith Joyce — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:31:14 GMT

[quote user="Richard Fox"]Hmm - how do you know[/quote]

Just going off the quote from the path report - "narrow to moderate" is hardly unequivocal and taken with "clear margin" it sounds almost contradictory. We are accustomed to much more helpful, less equivocal reports from our pathologists(even when the boss is surfing)!!

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Bob Russell — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:51:50 GMT

I have to admit I am fairly 'brutal' with my primary excision and have not had problems for a few years. Having said that I am always very happy to refer MCT's because I don't always go as deep as I perhaps should.

If the margins are inadequate I would operate (or refer!) but only after talking to the pathologist. They can always look at more sections if necessary and may be able to help decide the level of aggression by grading.

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Richard Fox — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:24:54 GMT

Hmm - how do you know - If the pathologist has said it is out - maybe with suitable margins then surely you are watching and waiting ot if grade 2 or 3 going in with chemotherapy?

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Judith Joyce — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:04:59 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Omega 3's should be able to bring world peace if they were able to do a fraction of the things the internet says they can! I hate to say I have found MCT's in Labs q bad news so may need very wide excision if it recurs.

[/quote]

Speaking with our surgeons - they advise against waiting to see IF it recurrs but instead going back now and excising incision line with 1cm+ margins thereby achieving a complete margin from day 1.

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Rob Davis — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:18:57 GMT

Many thanks, echoing my own thoughts. Three replies in 13 minutes - I'm impressed!

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Bob Russell — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:13:35 GMT

Masivet seems the in thing but I have not used it yet!

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:09:37 GMT

Since it's not POM I think I'd advise getting it from the chemist, that way I couldn't be accused of making a profit from unproven therapy,(mind you with a homeopath on RCVS Council !) but on the principle of "do no harm "-why not ?

Wynne

Re: Omega-3 for canine mast cell tumours

Richard Fox — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:08:46 GMT

No. I can't see how O3's would have a significant effect - as you say wouldn't do any harm but in my opinion would be a waste of money. I think Paladia or possibly Masivet would be better treatments if there are signs of recurrence and margins cannot be acheived?