Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

CatherineThomas — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 11:30:20 GMT

[quote user="Tanya Fielding"]

Our local rival refused to see an off colour budgie last week. Wanted the client to travel it half an hour to their avian specialist. Ok to offeer a more experienced vet but not to refuse to see it at the branch the lady was registered at and the big CVS company had recently taken over.

[/quote]

I don't see the problem there. If the vet doesn't know anything about birds and wouldn't have any idea what to do, it is better if it is seen by someone who does. Particularly with birds, as they hide symptoms so well. For example If you gave it a course of antibiotics because you didn't know what else to do, and baytril is licensed, but infection wasn't the problem it could be dead within days. Whereas someone who knows something about birds may have diagnosed it properly. Half an hour isn't far to travel and surely a half hour journey is better than spending half an hour visiting the local practice, stressing the bird out by being examined and then being told "Sorry I don't know what the problem is".

If someone brought a horse to me I would probably refuse to see it because I haven't dealt with them since I graduated. Yes I'm sure I could have a look but I would not be putting the welfare of that animal first and if there is someone available within a reasonable distance who does have knowledge of that species they would be better off going straight there.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Tanya Fielding — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:53:30 GMT

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:52:48 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

What has the profession come to when we are referring a nail clip? I know we are in an era of defensive medicine, but I would have thought any of us could wrap a parrot in a towel and clip its claws.

[/quote]

Nails weren't the question here though, it was a beak problem and this is not just a case of tidying it up and hoping for the best.

Personally I prefer doing all beak trims under GA - much less stressful for the bird, a better job can be done (including reshaping the inside of the upper beak- impossible in a conscious bird) and I am happy knowing that an ET tube is preventing my patient inhaling all the dust created. Plus I can do blood tests/Xrays etc as necessary to investigate why the bird has beak problems in the first place. If vets aren't used to the species and the factors leading to beak problems then it is difficult to work the bird up or advise the client as to the best approach and management. It's not a criticism of anyone - I'm not happy doing some surgical procedures in cats and dogs because I'm unfamiliar with them and so I refer these cases. Birds are not mammals with feathers, most are suffering from clinical/subclinical husbandry deficiencies and malnutrition and often its in the bird's best interests to go to an avian vet.

Marie

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:21:12 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

What has the profession come to when we are referring a nail clip? I know we are in an era of defensive medicine, but I would have thought any of us could wrap a parrot in a towel and clip its claws.

[/quote]

The way I think of it is that every client that comes through my door should be entitled to the best advice and service that my practice is able to offer them. In most cases our vets are perfectly qualified to give this advice and provide an excellent service however in cases such as this where the clients needs are somewhat more specific is it not better to say to the client 'Yes we could do this for you, and in all likelyhood do a good job, but it might be better that your parrot is registered with a vet who is able to provide a more complete service.' I don't think this is defensive medicine it's just what is in an ideal world best for the animal concerned. I don't like sending buisness away but sometimes we're just not the best person to be dealing with a particular client.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Emma Middleton — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:00:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]What has the profession come to when we are referring a nail clip? I know we are in an era of defensive medicine, but I would have thought any of us could wrap a parrot in a towel and clip its claws.[/quote]

I'm referred for it's beak to be trimmed. I agree entirely, I think I'd be quite capable of clipping it's nails (if they were actually long - the owner isn't sure). I would have been prepared to trim the beak had I had the cone shaped burr thing for our Dremel, which (from a video on You Tube) looks quite straightforward if you know what kind of length and shape you are aiming for.

As Gillian said though, I think being honest with the owner about my inexperience with beak trimming (being the most sensitive part and vulnerable to damage if done incorrectly) is the way to go.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:51:14 GMT

[quote user="Emma Middleton"]

Have spoken to client and they were happy to be referred to a vet up the road who sees parrots regularly.

Thanks all for the advice.

[/quote]

What has the profession come to when we are referring a nail clip? I know we are in an era of defensive medicine, but I would have thought any of us could wrap a parrot in a towel and clip its claws.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:30:46 GMT

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Emma Middleton — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:45:35 GMT

Have spoken to client and they were happy to be referred to a vet up the road who sees parrots regularly.

Thanks all for the advice.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:08:04 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]get a blanket or bath towel[/quote]

agreed - a towel is the only item of restraint needed - just gets bigger as the bird gets bigger. If you reach for the gauntlets, you will lose! I have to say though that I do hold the head (and then pass it to my nurse) - I'd rather know where the beak is!

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Emma Middleton — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:39:38 GMT

Evelyn - thanks for the advice, this is much appreciated.

Emma

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Emma Middleton — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:37:27 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I'm really sorry if this post seems very negative[/quote]

Gillian - not at all taken as negative - very helpful and your first point is especially valid! I agree totally with you about being honest with the owner, I tell all my clients with birds that I know nothing about them but if they still want me to try and do something I will do my best if I feel it's safe to do so. I try to avoid birds at all costs but sometimes things get booked in for you without there being any discussion first I think with this one I will have a chat with them first and let them decide. Although need to check we have the right burr, otherwise I'm not willing to do it and will need to refer them elsewhere.

Many thanks,

Emma

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 01:21:51 GMT

What Gillian said.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] Clients often feel beaks and nails are too long when in fact they are perfectly normal.[/quote]

Yes. Especially beaks. Nails do sometimes get overgrown though.

Apart from management, as Gillian says, the only reason I can think of why beaks overgrow is original physical deformity. And it may be longer than that of a normal bird, or a funny shape, but be steady in that state, with the bird eating fine: in which case it needs no cutting of course

As for the claws, this works for me: get a blanket or bath towel, nothing smaller. Put it right over the parrot from behind, preferably while it is still in its container though you may have to take it off the owner's shoulder. Do not let the owner be further involved at all. Therefore you will need a nurse because you will not have enough hands. Keep everything rolled in the towel: do not let the head poke out! This is the nurse's job. Fish inside the towel for one leg and draw it out. Parrots clench their feet and you will have to straighten each toe in turn with your free hand. As for clipping, err on the side of caution. Truly overgrown claws often have a sort of "beak" (!) extending beyond the obviously claw-shaped claw, and you should be safe cutting that. If you make it bleed do not panic but keep the claw tightly squeezed between finger and thumb, and reach for the magic powder or the magic purple crystals or the magic yellow stuff. Put the bird back in its box still wrapped in the towel; it will soon wriggle free.

Re: Advice on parrot beak trimming please

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:54:41 GMT

I'm afraid I have a few points to make:

First- if at all possible, book the parrot with a VS or practice who IS used to handling and treating parrots. At the very least make sure the owner knows of your inexperience. It isn't that you aren't capable - I am sure you are - it's just that if it DOES get complicated - with worse case scenario being death - you need to have been honest from the start. I have seen a LOT of clients who are very cheesed off that previous VSs didn't admit how little they actually knew. (In the same way that I wouldn't dream of treating a horse when I know b*****r all about them!)

Second - never clip beaks. Ever. Only use a high speed dental cutting tool and/or a burr. I also choose to use a burr on the nails.

Third - know what the normal beak and nail anatomy is before doing anything to them. Clients often feel beaks and nails are too long when in fact they are perfectly normal. I can't really explain what and where to cut/burr/clip - it is about returning the anatomy to as close to normal as possible. Try to get hold of a good picture of a normal specimen.......

Fourth - be able to give advice about prevention. Beaks and nails shouldn't overgrow - if they have then there is a husbandry issue. Probably hypovitaminosis A. Possibly lack of an abrasive perch. (NEVER advise sandpaper through.) Possibly anatomical abnormalities.

Fifth - You may need a GA, you probably won't. It depends on species and temperament - a GA can be safer than very tight restraint.

sixth - make sure your assistant/VN is able to restrain confidently and safely

seventh - if it is a big parrot then it's beak is capable of a LOT of damage - be careful!

I'm really sorry if this post seems very negative - I admire you being happy to have a go and do the best you can - (especially on a Saturday morning!) but it is a difficult thing to advise on in writing without being able to demonstrate it. We do a lot of parrot work so if you have any specific questions I promise I will do my best to answer them ...

lastly - good luck!