Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Peter Ding — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:29:54 GMT

If you listen to the link Michael you will hear they pre-treat with antibiotics and then give acid blockers for 24 hours around the time of the faecal transplant. Normal peristalsis will then convey the bacteria to where they are needed within a few hours .

Giving a mere 30 ml in t'other end would not result in much change to the microbial content of the ascending or transverse colon!

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 23:36:33 GMT

To my mind this will only work if the bacteria are placed into the environment where they are derived from. I have collected rumen fluid from healthy cows and given it to sick cows [especially after cereal overload/acidosis] with some success. The bacterial fauna in a ruman will be very different to that in the large intestine so not sure I fancy feeding a cow or a person their own shit.

I did make an artificial compartment 1 for a llama in the equine hospital at college - he was called Oscar and every feed we added some of the rumen content broth from another llama to his meals. He recovered, the grumpy sod. Had a # mandible with an ex fix and wasn't eating.

I suspect the stomach acid destroys all the bacteria in the pro-biotic drinks. Enema seems the logical method of inoculating the lower bowel.

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Wren — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:26:57 GMT

They've done it (abeit not regularly) in cattle and horses for years. I think it's called transfaunation? I always listen to Case Notes - 4.30pm on a Wed but it's a repeat of the Tuesday night program which is on about 8.30pm. I suspect it might be another of these trendy things that crop up in human medicine which actually turn out not to be new ideas but things one or two people have been plugging away at for years that have suddenly taken off. I think the original patient was given the solution by enema.

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:18:40 GMT

I really would prefer NOT to know

Wynne

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Peter Ding — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:16:13 GMT

Naso-gastric tube. 30 ml .

actually the program was called Case Notes - Wednesdays around 4.45

Cut and paste for those that want to hear the detail;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006th1n

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Richard Carter — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:10:45 GMT

we already recommend this in rabbits where new introductions being made - few faecal pellets crushed into the water container. And as in previous posting, garden soil for cats, preferably been used by all and sundry, way more effective than probiotics and pure sterile kitty litter. Also goes a long way to explain why IBD is a western 'civilised' disease which is unheard of in developing world where cholera more likely to be on your DD list.

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

bob lehner — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:10:09 GMT

[quote user="Peter Ding"]

Did anyone listen to the fascinating program detailing how many cases of chronic diarrhoea and IBS in humans can be cured by innoculating their intestine with 30 ml of a dilute solution of a healthy person's fresh stools. They generally used those of a close relative living in the same household as the concept seemed to be more readily accepted and was perhaps more logical.

[/quote]

Very interesting - how did they give the innoculum - p.o.or p.r. ? And in what form - liquid or incorporated in a capsule ? Could be some pretty serious aesthetic problems in humans at least with a liquid dose p.o.

Of course foals eat the mother's faeces to load themselves with the appropriate bugs to aid caecal digestion - and I think dosing horses and cows with fresh faeces has been done for a long time following major digestive upsets - I saw Luke Gamble on the tele the other day operating on a cow impacted with plastic in India and then loading the rumen with fresh (bovine) faeces.

Could put Yakult and co.out of business. I suppose you could call them Poobiotics.

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:01:42 GMT

Can also be used in horses

How do they administer in humans-or do I really not want to know ????????

Wynne

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Laurence Webb — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:59:46 GMT

I heard Bridget Reusch recommend it for rabbits as an alternative to probiotics, although it seems more logical in this species as coprophagia is a normal process anyway. Plus it doesn't stink as much as making a dog poo smoothie.

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:55:09 GMT

Re: Radio 4 - Medicine Now - the bowel -faecal transplants

Mark Holmes — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:52:54 GMT

I can just imagine that consultation "You want to do WHAT!?!"