Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Laurence Webb — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 22:45:10 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] Same for Biosyn as that is a non-absorbable synthetic isn't it? [/quote] No, Biosyn's an absorbable synthetic.

I like it as it has many of the good properties of Vicryl and PDS but fewer of the bad properties. It's monofilament so doesn't drag, holds knots better than Vicryl and PDS plus has less memory than PDS. It retains tensile strength longer than Vicryl (though not as long as PDS) but is absorbed faster than either. I find less inflammation using it than Vicryl, especially for intradermal sutures. It also comes with nice reverse cutting needles if you want.

On the down side you have to buy it in boxes of 36 and it's a bit more expensive than Vicryl. I'll use it for everything in bitch spays, castrates etc so you only need 1 pack per op as long as you don't leave big long ends to your ligatures.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

bob lehner — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:05:14 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

So, it is still actually perfectly useable even though "out of date".

So why not use it up yourself?

[/quote]

Mainly because people are paying a lot of money to have their animals operated on and I don't think it would look good if it came out into the public domain that the practice was using out of date materials. It only takes a disgruntled member of staff to talk about things like this and the repercussions can be unpleasant.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Cat Henstridge — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:21:54 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

So, it is still actually perfectly useable even though "out of date".

So why not use it up yourself?

[/quote]

To be fair I don't remember any particular problems with the materials but as I am not a boss I don't make decisions on what and what not to use. I just know that the clinic was incredibly grateful!

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 15:04:23 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]What are you people saying? It's "out of date" so obviously it's no good for your patients, but it's OK for charity jobs especially in faraway benighted African countries?[/quote]

Absolutely! Like Mark says it is better than nothing, which is what they would probably have if people didn't donate stuff they could no longer use. I spent some time in a neutering clinic in Thailand after I graduated and most of the things we used had been given to the clinic. Without it they simply would not have been able to function and the welfare of the animals on the island would have been much worse!

Cat

[/quote]

So, it is still actually perfectly useable even though "out of date".

So why not use it up yourself?

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Laurence Webb — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 12:17:47 GMT

We stock 2,3,4 metric Biosyn (I like Biosyn!) and 1,2,3 and 4 metric Vicryl (the boss likes Vicryl), a bit of Prolene plus some catgut and nylon on reels and that's pretty much it, Unless I unearth some out of date stuff at the back of a cupboard myself!

Not had anything go out of date for years.

We do have some ancient stuff that was out of date when I started work here 10 years ago that I use for stiching up animals put to sleep on the table or after post mortems. It's a nice safeguard incase an owner suddenly decides that they want to see the body to say goodbye and you don't want to hand them a blood covered cadaver with guts spilling out everywhere.

If you're not going to use it up yourself then an overseas charity would be a good idea.

As an aside, may you fall foul of Trading Standards if you're using out of date materials for work?

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Mark Holmes — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:42:21 GMT

In a previous job the clinic pretty much functioned on ood suture materials donated from the NHS. I am not aware we had any complications that were associated with the material.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Cat Henstridge — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:43:48 GMT

Cat

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:32:24 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

How out of date are we talking? You can always use them up for non critical things? Sub cut sutures etc.

[/quote]

Months!

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:31:06 GMT

I am not going to panic if a pack is a month or two out of date and there are plenty of 'non-critical' situations where I am not concerned about using older packs. A typical example last week was a small pedunculated 'wart' on an old dogs foot, I just ligated it so it should fall off. In years gone by we used to have medical staff who would turn up with large bags of suture materials that the NHS were binning. They were depressed with the waste!

I will not use out of date materials where I think there is risk if it fails especially if it is not easily accessible so would not use internally.

Unfortunately there will always be the material that is needed in a hurry but only occasionally. These are the ones I want to limit to enough but not too much!

I will not comment as to whether a bottle of Laurabolin is religiously thrown away after 28 days. I do not however feel I can charge a client for half a bottle of it monthly nor will I refuse to give that 'old crock' its 'tonic' injection that gets it back on an even keel!

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

bob lehner — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:57:46 GMT

Well I don' t think your average pack of suture material will lose all efficacy and become dangerous to use the day after it's official expiry date. However it would be unwise to use it in our type of situation where clients expect and are paying for a 'Gold standard' service. The same can be said for pharmaceuticals, although I don't believe that everyone religiously chucks out their bottles of injectables after the statutory 28 days.

Charities operating in impoverished countries are desperate for materials and I really can't see a problem using suture materials which are still in their sealed packets and are likely to be perfectly safe and effective. Of course they would not be used if the vet thought they had deteriorated or were unsafe.

I think it is truly deplorable how much of the world's valuable resources are wasted in our irresponsible Western 'throw away' society. Surveys have shown that we chuck out vast quantities of perfectly wholesome food, just because it has gone past some arbitrary 'best before' or 'use by' date. Believe me millions of people in Africa would be delighted to have it !

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:33:38 GMT

Yes, because it's better than nothing.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 23:58:00 GMT

What are you people saying? It's "out of date" so obviously it's no good for your patients, but it's OK for charity jobs especially in faraway benighted African countries?

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Julian Earl — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 22:21:13 GMT

Vicryl is treacherous if it is out of date - snaps very easily, but as for PDS, does it not retain its strength? Same for Biosyn as that is a non-absorbable synthetic isn't it? If so it should last forever, no?

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 19:51:04 GMT

How out of date are we talking? You can always use them up for non critical things? Sub cut sutures etc.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

CatherineThomas — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 17:12:13 GMT

We've just sent our out of date suture materials and sterile gloves to gambicats, there was a piece about them in the vet times I think it was, asking for supplies for an annual neutering/vaccination clinic which runs for a week in the Gambia. The contact details are 01239 810595 gambicats.aol.com. They need to recieve the items by mid march to ship them out in time.

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

Andrew Mellor — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 17:02:58 GMT

We stock vicryl 2/0 on tapercut and off needles, 4/0 on tapercut needle, ethilon 3/0 reverse cutting, vicryl rapide 2/0 tapercut , that covers most normal surgeries have 1 box of 7/0 vicryl some odd tiny needle i can bearly see for corneas hugely expensive and usually end up binning some of these , also have pds 2/0 and 1 on tapercut needles for orthopaedic stuff and where need strength for longer and ethilon 1 for tension relieving sutures and hernia repairs.

Hope this is of some help we have tried loads of different stuff over the last 10 years but keep coming back to ethicon materials

Re: Suture materials bringing me close to tears!

bob lehner — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:07:41 GMT

Can't really help you - but if you are thinking of throwing away the o.o.d stock can I suggest you first offer them to WVS, whom I'm sure will use them on one of the charity spay trips to Botswana or similar.