Propalin Question

Re: Propalin Question

Richard Fox — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:17 GMT

Update:

BP now normal :)

Owner is using puppy training pants as a liner for his basket (no not the owner ) and is working well with the early morning incontince and wishes to pass on their thanks

Re: Propalin Question

Richard Fox — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:45:11 GMT

Many thanks for the comments - I think the preds maybe reduced but this was a backup question - anyhow I will forward your comments to my colleage - She says many thanks BTW

Re: Propalin Question

Martin Jones — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:42:05 GMT

Can I suggest - in all seriousness - using a nappy? In terms of attempting to control these kinds of side effects with drugs, the return will always be diminishing and further side effects may be more debilitating to the dog. Sometimes a little lateral thinking goes a long way - even if it is just sideways.

Goretex wraps are available, which use panty liner inserts, or else just buy a pack of disposables (always buy slightly bigger than for body weight, as dogs have a relatively longer drop from bum to pelvis than do kids) and rip a hole for the tail. Generally, pretty well tolerated by most dogs.

Or suggest your mate gets up earlier (!)

Re: Propalin Question

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:14:38 GMT

Anecdotally, methylprednisolone seems to give less PUPD than prednisolone - may be worth a try if wanting to keep on glucocorticoid?

Re: Propalin Question

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:05:32 GMT

I had a look at estriol's (incurin) datasheet, unfortunately it says specifically "do not use in polyuria and polydipsia".

Re: Propalin Question

Eamon McAllister — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:44:18 GMT

Has he been castrated ?

Re: Propalin Question

Richard Fox — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:05 GMT

Thanks for the datasheet - missed that - oops

Its a bit third hand but only mildly hypertensive but he does have idiopathic retinal haemorrhages but not thought to be due to the mild hypertension?

I think he is prob 16+ yrs so pretty gerry - he was recommended propalin by the oncologist but not sure if that was b4 the retinal h+ or hypertensive dx.

I think the owner is thinking the pred maybe dropped - There is no evidence of cystitis

Thanks for the info -

Re: Propalin Question

Kate Richardson — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:26:23 GMT

From the vetoquinol propalin website:

"Phenylpropanolamine is a sympathomimetic agent which acts by direct stimulation of the a-adrenergic receptors in the smooth muscle of the internal urethral sphincter.

Sympathomimetics may produce a wide range of effects most of which mimic the results of excessive stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system (e.g. effects on heart rate and blood pressure).

Phenylpropanolamine a sympathomimetic drug may affect the cardiovascular system especially blood pressure and heart rate and should be used with caution in animals with cardiovascular diseases.

Care should be exercised in treating animals with severe renal or hepatic insufficiency diabetes mellitus hyperadrenocorticism glaucoma hyperthyroidism or other metabolic disorders.

In bitches less than 1 year old the possibility of anatomical disorders contributing to incontinence should be considered prior to treatment.

Do not administer to pregnant or lactating bitches.

Care should be exercised in administering Propalin Syrup with other sympathomimetic drugs anticholinergic drugs tricyclic antidepressants or specific type B monoamine oxidase inhibitors. It should not be used in patients treated with non-selective monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

In healthy dogs no side effects were observed at up to 5 times the recommended dosage. However an overdose of phenylpropanolamine could produce symptoms of excessive stimulation of the sympathic nervous system. Treatment should be symptomatic. Alpha-adrenergic blockers may be appropriate in the case of severe overdose. However no specific recommendation on drugs or dosages can be given."

How high is the BP?

I have used it in male dogs to good effect, but in this case I would probably want to speak to vetoquinol first to assess the risks in this particular case. Likely some reduction in sphincter tone which was subclinical until dog became pupd. Can the steroids be reduced at all or given sid ie in the morning instead? And assume he's checked for secondary infection (although assume being pathologists you would have checked for this already)!!!

But if dog likely to remain on steroids longer term, I guess you have to weight up benefits vs risks of (a) continuing the pred (I don't know how effective they are in MCTs?) or (b) risking the propalin. QOL is the most important thing in any animal, but especially and older one- how old is he?

Or could you use it, but if BP rises further, use a anti-hypertensive drug as well??? Just ideas, no strict science behind any of them!