Channel 5 Vet program

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:04:18 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Probably it is just the case that there are over-large calves being selected whichever breed is chosen.[/quote]

Overfed mother's too! You can look after them too well.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Bob Russell — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:04:09 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Probably it is just the case that there are over-large calves being selected whichever breed is chosen.

[/quote]

I've always told my clients the old saying that the only person who benifits from over-large calves being selected is the vet.

[/quote]

And the knacker-man!

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:58:26 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Probably it is just the case that there are over-large calves being selected whichever breed is chosen.

[/quote]

I've always told my clients the old saying that the only person who benifits from over-large calves being selected is the vet.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Julian Earl — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:52:39 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Going back to my large animal days I was always under the impression that the mother determined (to a large extent) the size of the foetus and it was the relative dimensions related to breed that caused most of the problems.

Therefore a Jersey should in theory be a moderately safe bet!

[/quote]

That's true for horses in that a Shire mare/Shetland stallion foal will be vastly bigger than the foal from the reverse crossing; a lot of that must surely be due to abdominal caviity size but this was always given as evidence of genetic influence as well.

As for the Jersey cow, there was a paper in the Vet Record, probably twenty-plus years ago, indicating that Holsteins have a small pelvis:weight ratio, and Jerseys the opposite, so they may not be such a bad choice after all. Anyway, we have had a lot of experience with BB crosses in the past and we found that they were generally a problem when crossed to a heifer or when bred pure at any age, but when crossed to an adult dairy cow, they were usually small but stocky calves that would calve without too much trouble. We saw far more problems with Limousins and Charolais than with BBs when crossed to beef cows.

Probably it is just the case that there are over-large calves being selected whichever breed is chosen.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:45:37 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Therefore a Jersey should in theory be a moderately safe bet!

[/quote]

I've always thought Jersey's quite roomy inside, despite their small stature. We have one client who milks them and you don't need a jack to calve them. Even the ones to blue crosses. Only ever did once caeser in a Jersey and that was a schistosomus reflexus.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:41:04 GMT

Total agreement Martin

Wynne

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Martin Jones — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:37:21 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Going back to my large animal days I was always under the impression that the mother determined (to a large extent) the size of the foetus

[/quote]

I think that only really holds true when the mother is contributing half of the genes to the foetus. Going even further back, to student days, I remember the recurring physiology exam question which invited comparisons between a foetus and a tumour, in terms of effect on the mother.

BBs and their caesars are going, rightly, to be a massive embarrassment for the profession. If we didn't grow these animals, the world wouldn't stop turning, you know. Easy calving Devons produce much better meat in any case - although old fashioned Hereford topside, with an inch of fat around the joint.............. (Homer Simpson drooling noises)

There's a whole other thread in there about how the livestock industry shoots itself in the foot by pushing margins constantly at the top end, instead of producing a single standard of product which keeps a level playing field.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Bob Russell — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:13:54 GMT

Therefore a Jersey should in theory be a moderately safe bet!

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Sarah Wheeler — Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:33:57 GMT

I agree with the comment about Jerseys having low dystocia levels. Several of our clients have put BB or Charolais bulls on their lower end Jersey cows and not had any problems. I have also never pulled a calf from a Jersey cow! I have however done lots of BB caesars, both on recipients and on pure BB cows, and I would have to say it is unrealistic to think that ANY cow is going to be able to calve a pure BB calf naturally. Personally, I don't even attempt to pull them. If I get a call to a BB calving (pure BB calf) I always caesar it. I am just not willing to accept the risk of getting it stuck at the hips. My favorite recipient is a Sim x Friesian heifer, they are nice and big, generally quiet, and have lots of milk.

Also, there is a certificate that needs to be filled out before embryos can be put in recipients. It needs to be signed by a vet and on it the vet needs to say that they believe the recipient is fit to carry the intended embryo.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Robert Whiteford — Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:47:44 GMT

I think that Jersey cows have the lowest incidence of dystocia!! Good reason to use them as recipients? Probably a better mother than a Limousin and even a pedigree Belgian Blue!! As to embryo transfer in general, that is another discussion.

Re: Channel 5 Vet program

Alan Tevendale — Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:13:31 GMT

If one of my clients did that I would have a small discussion with them. This is an obvious welfare concern. Hope you enjoyed your trip to the pub.

More seriously though you do raise a point about breeding from animals that the breeder (farmer or otherwise) almost certainly knows (or at least should do) will need surgery.