Snake bites in Dogs

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

fiona Bolton — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:15:36 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]

I would be surprised if it was an economically sound decision to try and bring a licensed anti-venom to the market as it is quite a specialist product.

I have treated a handful of snake bites and ten only to use antivenom when bites are on the head/neck or dog seems v sick with it.

But i would certainly be interested to hear about what you are planning!

Andy

[/quote]If you would like to know more about what we are planning and more about the product you can email me: fiona.bolton@micropharm.co.uk

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

fiona Bolton — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:46:25 GMT

[quote user="Martin Whitehead"]

Our hospital in rural NW Oxfordshire has seen only two suspected adder bites in the 11 years I have been here. One lurcher bitten in our area had two punctures just above the carpus consistent with snakebite and developed a large skin slough but otherwise was minimally affected. One labrador bitten in classic adder habitat (heathland) on the Isle of Wight when rolling in the heather was pretty ill for a few days and had a massive skin slough over the top of the thigh. For this case we tried to get hold of anti-venom but failed - a nearby hospital had some but refused to give it to us.

With such a low incidence of bites we wouldn't keep anti-venom in stock unless it had a shelf life of some years. How soon after a bite would it need to be given to be worthwhile using? If we didn't have any in stock, would it be practical to get it within that time window?

[/quote]

Ideally antivenom should be given within 4 hours of being bitten, but as venom is released from the bite site for up to 3 days from the bite site, if signs of envenomation persist, it is worth administering the anti-venom. Indeed, the fore-runner of our antivenom, designed for use in Africa has been administered to patients who have walked or been transported 100miles to the nearest clinic for treatment.

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

fiona Bolton — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:40:58 GMT

[quote user="trekking vet"]

I think the clinic here in Dorset usually has 2 cases a year and we have antivenom in stock. Many patients suffer seconadary effects of adder bites such as skin sloughing, even when initially presenting with quite benign symptoms. I would be keen to know how effective this new antivenom against these secondary effects. From experience in Oz, the antivenom seems to effective against neurotoxins but powerless against the pigement which will cause multi organ failure after a few weeks.

Will it be worth given anitivenom even in very mild cases?

[/quote]The antivenom should prevent localised as well as generalised effects of envenomation. The pharmacokinetics of venom and antivenoms is quite complex. Obviously, at this stage we have no clinical data, except extrapolation from an identically manufactured antivenom against Echus ocellatus, the Carpet Viper which has been used extensively in human patients in Nigeria. I am not quite sure what you mean by the 'pigement that causes multi-organ failure'. I would be very keen to hear about any clinical cases where this has occured. If you would like to discuss this in more depth with me my email address is fiona.bolton@micropharm.co.uk.

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Bob Russell — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:25:23 GMT

If we find ourselves without antivenom or it has gone out of date one of the neighbouring practices usually does have some. The date on the stuff we use is generally a year or so!

It has not been a problem getting it from our wholesaler.

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Martin Whitehead — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:39:21 GMT

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Andrew Kent — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:06:46 GMT

I would be surprised if it was an economically sound decision to try and bring a licensed anti-venom to the market as it is quite a specialist product.

I have treated a handful of snake bites and ten only to use antivenom when bites are on the head/neck or dog seems v sick with it.

But i would certainly be interested to hear about what you are planning!

Andy

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Bob Russell — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:07:06 GMT

Antivenom certainly seems to make the dog more comfortable. These dogs can be incredibly depressed and within an hour of antivenom much happier. The last one was treated without antivenom but continued to deteriorate so was given it i/v with fluids and within an hour or so was much improved and was allowed it to go home. The fluids may have helped of course but I put a lot of this improvement to the antivenom.

I am not sure how often there are anaphalactic reactions but we have not seen one yet. We keep antivenom in stock and probably use it a couple of times a year.

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

trekking vet — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:28:47 GMT

Will it be worth given anitivenom even in very mild cases?

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

fiona Bolton — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:34:44 GMT

This will be the first veterinary licenced antivenom in the UK

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Bob Russell — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:58:51 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]

I've seen two dogs in 6 years locuming in the UK that I suspected were adder bite "victims". Long time ago, in Devon - both responded to metacam and only really for swelling at bite sites. One had swelling ventral to the pharynx and resolved well without much intervention. This was all in stark contrast to 2 dogs a week working out East of Melbourne for 3 months, where a significant proportion died, even with anti venom and intensive hospital treatment.

[/quote]

If you only suspected they were adder strikes they may have been 'dry' strikes where only minimal amounts of venom are injected to produce pain in the victim. These tend to require minimal treatment.

A full-blown adder strike seems to happen relatively rarely but the dogs are very depressed and ill. The majority of these do well (antivenom given here if head/neck area). These strikes can be pretty dramatic.

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

James Laidlaw — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 23:05:58 GMT

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Martin Jones — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:04:40 GMT

Would this be a human preparation, or are you looking at a veterinary-licensed product?

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Bob Russell — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:55:21 GMT

We are based in the New Forest so have plenty of experience of this. Check the other threads but feel free to ask questions. The anti venom makes a heck of a difference to how the animal feels!

Re: Snake bites in Dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 13:47:14 GMT

There are one or two big threads on this if you search