Odd Case

Re: Odd Case

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:21:44 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I remember the shock and indignation on the face of the President of the Kennel Club when Panorama asked if it was acceptable for him to have children with his own daughter! He was quite disgusted with the concept (quite rightly) but did nothing to defend the breeders that allowed this type of mating to produce the 'ideal' show dog.

[/quote]

I missed that. I wish I'd seen it, its the sort of thing I would say.

Re: Odd Case

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:59:50 GMT

Yes it is amazing how it is acceptable to the brainless that the father can be the brother, uncle, cousin etc etc. How many heads did it have? How many legs and did it have two tails?

I think a quiet word with the owners might be in order about it but I suspect they will be too upset to take it up with the breeder. They may be a little wiser with the choice of the next dog.

Re: Odd Case

Wren — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:06:54 GMT

I am just filling in the insurance paperwork for this case and I have the dog's 5 generation pedigree in front of me. One dog appears 4 times in the sire line and 3 times in the dam line, and another appears twice in each line. Is this normal pedigree breeding practice? I'm shocked! (Although I suspect that someone as familiar as I am with the TB breeding industry should never be surprised by such close 'line' breeding ).

Re: Odd Case

Julian Earl — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:49:13 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I once saw a dog like that. but it had the history of having eaten its owners medication. When I asked to see this medication it was a muscle relaxant (maybe called mysoline? I am not sure if I remember rightly). The dog had eaten the whole packet and it was totally and absolutely relaxed!

It did survive on a drip and with the owner staying with it and stimulating it untill it woke up by the next day.

[/quote]

Mysoline was an anti-epileptic medication that was metabolised to phenobarbitone in the liver. Originally made by ICI, then Glaxo and so on through all the permutations of that company. Eventually withdrawn a few years ago, from veterinary use anyway. About thirty to forty years ago it was the first-line treatment for seizures*. So, all in all, that would make the signs you describe fully consistent with barbiturate anaesthesia; whether that relates to the odd case in the OP , who knows?

*So my Grandad told me because I'm not old enough to remember, oh no.

Re: Odd Case

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:52:15 GMT

You'll never know,but if it's any comfort, I thinkthe rest of us would have had the same end result-and been equally puzzled-I don't thinkyour bewilderment had anything to do with your TB testing

Wynne

Re: Odd Case

mariette asselbergs — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 14:08:13 GMT

It did survive on a drip and with the owner staying with it and stimulating it untill it woke up by the next day.

Re: Odd Case

Wren — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:44:20 GMT

Thanks for the replies and ideas. No PM sadly.

I probably didn't word my neuro findings very well (bear in mind that I've done little but TB test for the past 6 months!). There was no patellar reflex, no withdrawal reflex, no response to any amount of poking, prodding or pinching of limbs. The only thing that elicited a response was touching the cornea whereupon I got a half hearted blink. There was some anal tone. The dog looked, and responded pretty much exactly as one which had been GA'd for surgery - I would just have said it was fractionally light to start cutting (slight jaw tone and blink). I was surprised by the good colour and pulse strength.

Re: Odd Case

Richard Fox — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 12:36:13 GMT

Hmm.....Could this then suggest CNS disease in general? i.e. Brain and spinal? Or can you get absent reflexes with severe Brain disease? I know that sounds unlikely as peripheral reflexes do not require the CNS as Malcolm suggested?

Re: Odd Case

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:07:41 GMT

By "peripheral reflexes" do you mean fore and hind limb reflexes? If so that is not consistent with a brain lesion.

Re: Odd Case

Richard Fox — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:59:15 GMT

Does sound like an acute infarct to me as well :( Maybe an underling grumbling sub-clinical disease leading to thrombus formation? Or vessel anomaly in the brain leading rupture d.t. increase in blood flow/pressure - i.,e. aneurysm? Just theories mind you!

PM as David said would be good as serial TS sections of brain may reveal neuroparenchymal h+?

Re: Odd Case

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:41:44 GMT

sounds like a cerebrovascular incident to me with progressive bleeding causing brain stem involvement and bradycardia. effort of vomitting cauld have ruptured an aneurism enlarged by effort of sexual activity last night. pm would be great to do but I guess you won't be that lucky