guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Rob Davis — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:16:20 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

there is actually a higher risk of aspiration with dental work if a tube is used as most won't fit snugly.

[/quote]

I always try to intubate rabbits (I won't claim 100% success, but manage most), and the only time I've had a problem with aspiration was when I had decided not to intubate for a dental procedure, and a fragment of tooth disappeared caudally and lodged in the trachea. I was unable to retrieve it in time and the rabbit died. This is the only death I have had in a rabbit under GA in the last 5 years, and since then have redoubled my efforts to intubate all bunnies. Perhaps I was just unlucky....

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:32:28 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]

would you then reverse with antisedan or do you leave them to come round naturally, can I check are we talking about the I/M cat dose of the triple , or the I/V cat dose given to the GP i/m , maybe me just being thick wouldn't be the first time today.

[/quote]

I rarely find a need to reverse my patients are usually waking up as I finish but I would if I had to to - probably 1/2 dose of Dom. as in cats. And I use cat IM doses IM in small furries into the quads best I can or lumbar muscle otherwise

Didn't think about the nose breathing thing though may consider next time.

[/quote]

I always reverse with the same volume of atipamezole as of medetomidine, after allowing 30 minutes at least for the ketamine to wear off.

I should perhaps have said the doses are those you will find for small rodents in, just for instance, the BSAVA formulary.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:41:05 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]

[/quote]

Didn't think about the nose breathing thing though may consider next time.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:31:38 GMT

Yes, we have small masks (made from syringe cases!) for bunnies too as they are nasal breathers. Interestingly as the epiglottis is so closely associated with the palate there is a tight seal around the glottis in its normal position, which is disrupted by intubation and the assocaited repositioning of the glottis meaning that there is actually a higher risk of aspiration with dental work if a tube is used as most won't fit snugly.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Andrew Mellor — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:24:34 GMT

ARE rabbits the same? can we get away with barrel of 5 ml syringe as mask - fits nicely around nose and other end fits neatly inside t-piece .

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:48:22 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

Does't this also mean that if you are trying to do dental work between masking, it wakes up more quickly so prolonging the procedure as you keep having to put the mask back on? I have never used sevo, but noticed the difference with this when we changed from halothane to isofluorane many years ago.

[/quote]

You can keep the mask on so they continue ot breathe volatile and O2. Most small fluffy things are obligate nasal breathers so you can have a small mask over the nose while working freely in the mouth. It will however mean your nurse gets fed up faster and develops cramp, holding the head, mask and gag!

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Rob Davis — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:03:48 GMT

[quote user="Peter Ding"]

I would suggest Sevo is far preferable to Iso for masking out or maintenance of any species..

Quicker, better tolerated and safer for all concerned with higher acceptable exposure levels for operators.

It almost seems obligatory to use it under H&S legislation.

[/quote]

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:29:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Either you're very good or very lucky with calculating exact doses of triple combo Evelyn.[/quote]

Well...............

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Andrew Mellor — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:38:29 GMT

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Amanda Magrath — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:07:46 GMT

Thanks for all your replies - I ended up using Dom/Torb/Ket im at cat dose (with Dopram on hand!), I found induction was fast and smooth, the GP was well anaesthetised for approximately 15 minutes then just towards the end of the dental she started to bite and show signs of being too light - topped up with a little iso via mask and this gave me another 5 minutes which was just enough to finish. Now eating well phew!

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Amanda Magrath — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:07:05 GMT

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:14:01 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

The triple combination by intramuscular injection (weigh your animal and look up the doses in some books). Don't waste time intubating (or trying to): it doesn't need true general anaesthesia, just deep sedation. I've never had any trouble completing everything before the drugs wear off, in fact prolonged sedation is more of a worry. Have the oxygen mask and the Dopram handy of course.

[/quote]

Either you're very good or very lucky with calculating exact doses of triple combo Evelyn. I rarely get through a procedure without a top up with some gas and if there's a tube in place its a lot easier to administer not that I'm always successful tubing and the tube does get in the way but I've been glad of it when I've nicked that bloody (literally) big venous sinus rodents have in the back of their throats!

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:21:53 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]Exactly, that's how we do it.[/quote]

I presume you've got the decent equipment and a decent headlight and that absolute essential, a decent nurse to hold the patient. Veterinary Instrumentation's "table top rodent gag" can be awkward and sometimes I curse it, but on the whole it's a great help.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Rob Loxley — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:19:26 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]Less Oxygen needed[/quote]

How does that work?

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Vikki Halliday LLB — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:15:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Butorphanol/Medetomidine/Ketamine at cat GA dose, attempt to intubate with 2mm uncuffed tube and maintain on Isoflurane with a T-piece or equivalent. The maintenance is easy if you can tube it but you should still be able to do most or all of the dental work (I assume you're trimming/filing cheek teeth spurs and hope you have cheek pouch dilators and rodent gag plus a some molar cutters and a small diamond file) under just the triple combo or that plus an occasional few breaths of gaseous anesthesia with a mask if you can't tube and do a bit at a time between maskings. I generally don't have any problems with the above protocol but if it has potential respiratory complications I would give it oxygen for a few minutes by mask as it is being induced and possibly some pre anaesthetic Dopram.

[/quote]

Exactly, that's how we do it.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Vikki Halliday LLB — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:14:29 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]And 10x more expensive - is it really that much better?[/quote]

Only 5x more expensive, but yes it's amazing stuff. Less Oxygen needed and recovery is great.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:17:55 GMT

[quote user="Peter Ding"]

I would suggest Sevo is far preferable to Iso for masking out or maintenance of any species..

Quicker, better tolerated and safer for all concerned with higher acceptable exposure levels for operators.

It almost seems obligatory to use it under H&S legislation.

[/quote]

And 10x more expensive - is it really that much better? I have no problems with Iso and it easily passed the test for exposure levels even when deliberately vented to the room with no scavenging just to prove the point.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Peter Ding — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:46:55 GMT

I would suggest Sevo is far preferable to Iso for masking out or maintenance of any species..

Quicker, better tolerated and safer for all concerned with higher acceptable exposure levels for operators.

It almost seems obligatory to use it under H&S legislation.

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:12:06 GMT

Re: guinea pig anaesthesia for dental

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:34:05 GMT

Phone someone whohas a DVA

Wynne