Immobilon alternatives

Re: Immobilon alternatives

eaksoy — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 07:21:43 GMT

Zoletil is fine to use in equids either alone or with alpha-2 agonsit and/or with ketamine. can also give with butorphenol and xylazine. If need good doses the Lumb and Jones' Veterinary Anaesthesia and Analgesia is great!

p.s. Def good idea to stock naloxone but prob very expensive for routine use!!!

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:19:08 GMT

I know exactly what you mean. You certainly get good at jumping walls and gates.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:01:50 GMT

Point taken Mind you some of those Welsh Black sucklers weren't far off zoo animals

Wynne

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:16:24 GMT

Sorry Hannah I should have said that I prefer to use it in zoo equids and cattle. Basically things that I can't get anywhere near so it's ideal for darting. I agree on general terms that other drugs are far safer and cheaper but when you can't get within 10 feet of an animal without it hurting itself or you immobilon comes into it's own.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Laurence Webb — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:22:13 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]If we did not and had to self-inject would we be facing the DC? I would rather have faced the DC than my maker!

[/quote]Just have the VMD on speed dial when you use Immobilon. Just before respiratory paralysis kicks in you should be able to use your dying breath to ask for permission to use it. Simple.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:14:43 GMT

Why prefer Immobilon for horses? You can hear thier hearts beating the other end of the field, so I would be terrified of a burst aorta-and with cattle, the xylocaine dose is 1/10th that of horses in mgs/kg, so economical-and I haven't even started on the difficulty of talking your way out of having accidentally injected someone you had a row with last week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Mark Holmes — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:11:01 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

If we did not and had to self-inject would we be facing the DC? I would rather have faced the DC than my maker!

[/quote]

I don't know, having seen the various transcript of DC hearings over the last few years I wouldn't be so confident. At least our maker (assuming they are the same person. Sometimes I think I might come from a dodgy workshop) would, I hope be consistant, impartial, fair, reasonable, qualified to sit in judgement and unlikely to sacrifice me on political grounds.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 14:42:26 GMT

Yeah I use Zoletil a fair bit but prefer it for use in certain species (Lions, African Hunting Dogs etc) and Immobilon for others (Bovines, Equids). I've no experience of using it in Zebras for instance.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alex Allen — Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:46:07 GMT

Have you considered Zoletil? (Zoletil = Zolazepam + Tiletamine) Available through an SIC and fairly commonly used in large zoo species for many years.

Give us a call at Virbac to see if this would be appropriate for your case.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Bob Russell — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:47:13 GMT

Off on a tangent a bit!

We had it available in case of accidental self-injection and got it from our wholesaler. As it is a human drug and was bought for human use in emergency should we have got it from our GP?

If we did not and had to self-inject would we be facing the DC? I would rather have faced the DC than my maker!

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Bob Russell — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:42:32 GMT

Narcan should be available through wholesalers. As it is an opiate antagonist I cannot see why it should be a problem to get. A hospital pharmacy will be able to get it as it is widely used for drug overdoses in man.

The manufacturers may have some information from research animals.

For what it is worth human adult starting dose 800 micrograms (2ml) i/m then 400 micrograms every 2-3 minutes until effects are adequate. It has a very short half life so we only kept it in our drugs bag for use until the ambulance arrived! Max dose is about 25 doses but my view was better to get an overdose of narcan than an overdose of immobilon!

Thank goodness we don't use Immobilon for small animals!

My concern would be that it would not last long enough for your patients. Sorry can't be more helpful!

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:18:57 GMT

Does anyone have any experience of use of naloxone in animals? Would be interesting but can't say I'm expecting many replies.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:14:49 GMT

I think I might get some on order then. Every time I've ordered it previously my nurses have told me not possible - maybe they don't like all these nasty drugs.

Handy to have around anyway as it's by far the better alternative for use in accidental injection in humans.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:41:22 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]Nalonone is always a possibility although it seems to be difficult to get hold of - any ideas of sorces?[/quote]

Listed in the Dunlops system as in stock.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:06 GMT

Nalonone is always a possibility although it seems to be difficult to get hold of - any ideas of sorces?. My problem with domosedan/torb/ket combo's tends to be the large volumes needed.

Spoken to Vetapharma now and it would seem that we will be without Revivon until at least March.

Re: Immobilon alternatives

James Kerr — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:05:29 GMT

I seem to remember seeing people darting some giraffe-type thing (okapi?) on zoo rotation at vet school, I'm pretty sure they used some form of dom/torb/ket combo (presume that was domosedan rather than domitor?). No idea on doses though. But it didn't move a muscle while having its feet trimmed so seemed to do the trick!

Re: Immobilon alternatives

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:45:51 GMT

Could you not reverse with human generic Naloxone under the cascade?