sedation for euthanasia

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Mark Holmes — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 14:18:24 GMT

2ml sux in a sausage is useful apparantly. Not tried it but would be my choice is faced with someting nasty.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Anthony Todd — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:20:53 GMT

[quote user="alison howell"]I like saphenous veins for PTS - they don't go completely flat with sedation and stay quite obvious, also you are away from the biting end and the owner can hold the head.[/quote]

That's exactly how my colleague lost a chunk of his cheek; except he was giving a "quick" jab of something I/M and, of course, the owner "couldn't hold " the head.

I can only reiterate if you are with a dangerous euthanasia 2ml of suxamethonium anywhere in the animal followed ASAP by I/V pentobarb is the only safe way IMHO.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Jacquin Mitchell — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 08:10:02 GMT

I'm a mobile vet and work alone, so sedate all my euthanasias. After a previous thread on the subject, I started using the following protocol for dogs Midazolam( the stronger concentration hypnovel) , ACP, ketamine 1ml/1ml/1ml per 10 kg. It's supposed to be given Slow IM, but I have no time constraints so often give it SQ and it works well that way too. It gives beautiful sedation, good veins, no gasp, no rigidity & no vomiting- I did have a dog that had a fit while it became sedated but it had been fitting anyhow. Most animals are completely flat on this but I've had a couple that can raise their heads. Some owners have been concerned about this so I've given a little more ( this time IM) and the dog becomes unresponsive quickly.

HTH

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Jessica Fawkes — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 07:52:56 GMT

I found myself in difficulty once; aggressive FAT rotti and home euth with a doting owner, after flattening the dog with something, I couldn't get a vein (cephalic or saphenous to save my life, and there was no way a needle was even going to get through the subcut layer, let alone intracardiac (and I think most owners would find that distasteful, even if technically possible ) the sublingual vein was visible, accessable, and best of all, worked. On a zonked out animal it's one to remember.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Aurelijus vet — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:48:51 GMT

I used xylazine/ketamine( large dogs) IM zoletil/xylazine (small dogs and cats) IM

Re: sedation for euthanasia

vs0u — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:13:11 GMT

I like saphenous veins for PTS - they don't go completely flat with sedation and stay quite obvious, also you are away from the biting end and the owner can hold the head. For sedation I would use an overdose of D and T to make sure it worked. I find owners don't really like injections into the heart/kidneys/liver etc - but obviously hitting the heart first time would be better than spending half an hour getting a vein...personal preference I think.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Utlendigur — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:05:55 GMT

It depends how aggressive the dog is. If it's just a bit nervous and jumpy I like acp and torbugesic (0.1ml/10kg of each) - low volume to give, fairly good sedation, no vomiting, relatively little effect on veins and without the agonal gasping that dom/torb seems to give (even if you warn owners it still isn't nice) but if it is very aggressive/dangerous I'd use dom/torb.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:39:22 GMT

[quote user="Robert Whiteford"]How do those who do not charge separately for there use account for their Domitor/Torbugesic etc?[/quote]

One or two places I have worked have kept an out of date, but still perfectly useable bottle of Domitor for sedation of euthanasias, obviously this was not charged and was written off.

In my practice I would charge it up as a sedation, but zero the price if I didn't want to charge the client. That keeps my stock levels correct and ordering is a bit easier.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:34:32 GMT

The boss in my practice likes to use acp+ pethidine, for what it's worth. I definitely highly commend the intracardiac injection for pentobarb; if you explain to the owners first that this is the least stressful way (given the circumstances, go venous if possible of course) then you won't have a problem.

Communication, communication, communication.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Rob Loxley — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:42:46 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Domitor and Torbugesic are very expensive, do most people charge for them if needed for an aggressive PTS.[/quote]

Yes, they get charged for the drugs, have used xylazine in large dogs but they pretty reliably vomit up their 'final meal' and it's all very messy...

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Robert Whiteford — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:22:43 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Domitor and Torbugesic are very expensive, do most people charge for them[/quote]

The great advantage of computerized pricing has been the automatic destocking of materials as they are used and a reasonable reconciliation between purchases and use, and facilitation of automatic re-ordering. It also eliminated so called compassionate pricing. How do those who do not charge separately for there use account for their Domitor/Torbugesic etc?

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Bob Russell — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:08:05 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Domitor and Torbugesic are very expensive, do most people charge for them if needed for an aggressive PTS. Most practices I work in do not, and if faced with a >60Kg Rottweiler, one could be using 2.0ml of each? I personally would charge a sedation fee if it were necessary.

[/quote]

I charge for the domitor but can't be bothered to charge for the torb usually! A very troublesome one would charge sedation as well if extra time was necessary!

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:03:23 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Domitor and Torbugesic are very expensive, do most people charge for them if needed for an aggressive PTS[/quote]

[/quote]

Depends on the client. If they are a very loyal long standing client and the dog has only recently become aggressive, then probably not. But the donuts who request euthanasia of a nasty dog that we have never seen, or that we haven't treated for a while, definately charge sedation and euthanasia.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:48:15 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Domitor and Torbugesic are very expensive, do most people charge for them if needed for an aggressive PTS[/quote]

We would charge sedate dog plus drugs in these cases (pentoject is including in small animal euthanasia, but we bill it to large animals).

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Anthony Todd — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:41:01 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"] once locumed in a practice that used suxamethonium to paralyse very aggressive dogs for euthanasia, but I never have. seems barbaric to me.[/quote]

Load your pentobarb and when the suxa works, which it does very quickly even S/C, give the lethal barbiturate I/V. That way it's not barbaric and saves getting a lump out of your cheek as happened to a colleague...

Only necessary on rare occasions and I think the procedure of choice.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Clive Ansell — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:05:07 GMT

Re: sedation for euthanasia

bob lehner — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:00:23 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Just sedate the dog heavily (ACP & Dom & Torb) and then give pentobarb intra cardiac[/quote]

Yes, in these difficult circumstances I would in fact administer a full ga dose of dom/ket i/m and then i/c pentobarb - preferably after the owners have left - or if they insist on staying to the bitter end, explain what you are doing and that the dog is now fast asleep. Then discretely admin the i/c dose (can use your other hand to shield the syringe from direct view as you do it). Check location of heart first with stethoscope. Easier for all concerned than trying to locate collapsed veins after heavy sedation.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Clive Ansell — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:59:15 GMT

Acp/dom/torb/ket sedation, then intracardiac if venous access is difficult or impossible.

I once locumed in a practice that used suxamethonium to paralyse very aggressive dogs for euthanasia, but I never have. seems barbaric to me.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Gerry Henry — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:16:55 GMT

Xylazine at the top end dose, it will knock him flat but is that an issue? Personally I'd go for the jugular in this case rather than the wobbly, troublesome saphenous.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:15:47 GMT

Just sedate the dog heavily (ACP & Dom & Torb) and then give pentobarb intra cardiac. Simple. Owners don't seem to mind, just make sure the sedation has had time to work.

Re: sedation for euthanasia

Richard Carter — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:47:28 GMT

You may find plenty of options on a previous thread on this topic.