cat toxicity causing fitting

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Richard Fox — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:28:00 GMT

IME - How long is a piece of string when it comes to toxicities there are so many chemicals around the house and garden etc that unless you spot and open packet etc it becomes almost impossible

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Rob Loxley — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 00:22:45 GMT

[quote user="James Allsop"]please correct me if I'm wrong but i remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't 'top up' cats with propofol as the half life is significantly longer in cats [/quote]

Heinz body formation could be an issue with repeated injections/prolonged infusion but how much you need to give and how clinically relevant the amount of formation actually is, I'm not sure

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Anthony Todd — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:43:18 GMT

[quote user="James Allsop"]propofol[/quote]

Are I/v barbiturates not used in cats? We used to spay under pentobarb and it lasts for many many hours.......

Has phenobarbitone I/v to effect ever been tried. Propofol has such a short half life and diazepam even shorter.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

James Allsop — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:11:38 GMT

[quote user="Matthew Scotter"]Generally I have to keep them anaesthetised using propofol via syringe driver[/quote]

please correct me if I'm wrong but i remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't 'top up' cats with propofol as the half life is significantly longer in cats and they are easy to overdose

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Rob Davis — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:57:52 GMT

Chocolate poisoning? I wouldn't previously have considered this very likely in cats, but having spent most of last night looking after a cat which had eaten half a box of thorntons dark chocolates I will bear it in mind in the future. Anyone else had cats eating chocolate?

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Vikki Halliday LLB — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:50:40 GMT

[quote user="Matthew Scotter"]

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]The last one was euthanised as we could not control the seizures during GA and the prognosis was pretty poor. [/quote]

[/quote]

Unfortunately the owners were neither financially nor emotionally able to do this. Otherwise we might have tried, even in the absence of a syring driver. However at 9pm with no prospect of improvement, having been anaesthatised for 30 min, and worsening in spite of an increasing dose and varying combination of drugs, I think we did the best for both owner and cat in bringing it to a conclusion.

Not my preferred outcome, so I will bear in mind the post re Robaxin!

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

ms1083 — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:09:10 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]The last one was euthanised as we could not control the seizures during GA and the prognosis was pretty poor. [/quote]

Seen several now and all have got better, I admit they do initally get worse but once they start improving its quite rapid. Generally I have to keep them anaesthetised using propofol via syringe driver (regurally reducing/lowering rate to check progress) with IVFT & diuretics. It tends to take 1 afternoon, 1 very long night constant monitoring and then just as you think they will never get better they start improving late afternoon the next day. Occasionally I have had to add midazolam/diazepam and sometimes phenobarbitone as well as propofol. They have all been young/middle ages cats but I can see this may be too much physiological stress for an elderly cat to cope with.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Alexander Campbell — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:05:26 GMT

Any possibility that the cats had access to rotting food waste or compost?

It could be a case of tremorgenic mycotoxin exposure? This is more common than one might expect. Onset is usually fairly rapid (as in a metaldehyde poisoning) and animals (usually dogs and cats) can take some 24-48 hours to fully recover.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Laurence Webb — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 23:28:35 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

'Re fitting cats - anyone ever seen or heard of fitting post frontline combo ? 8 y.o DHS fitting epileptiform 2 days after application which then abated over 24 hr after washing and diazepam/ torb. Tried to find out if any other chemicals around but owner absolutely sure was frontline and never used anything else on this patient or on her other animals'.

With regards to this one Richard - I'm willing to bet she used Bob Martin's!

[/quote]

Clients are often deluded on this. Not a toxicity but a client came in yesterday with a cat with the worst flea infestation I've seen for years, the coat was actually crusty there were so many flea droppings and was so anaemic it would have got a blood transfusion except she couldn't afford it. She swore blind that she used Frontline from the pet shop but I was so convinced she hadn't I re-phrased the question several times and at about the 5th attempt of asking her to describe the packaging it was obviously Bob Martins or some equivalent rubbish. However, does anyone remember the Droplix fiasco - when cats were dropping like flies and the product was withdrawn and recalled? Maybe these cases are the tip of the iceberg of a repeat scenario.

[/quote]

We had great results with Droplix!! The only one we had with toxicity problems was the vicars dog. The drops were a year out of date and had been kept on the window sill!!!

[/quote]

If I recall correctly, the problem was with 1 batch of Droplix which degraded to a more potent OP. Not sure why. I don't think it was a problem with the product in general but as a result sales dropped so far that it was discontinued for economic reasons.

Luckily for Merial Frontline Spot-on was licensed fairly soon after.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Mark Holmes — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 14:11:06 GMT

I keep reading the title of this thread and imagining a seizuring Jack russel. "I'm afraid madame he's got cat toxicity, he needs some felobarbitone"

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Bob Russell — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:45:18 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

With regards to this one Richard - I'm willing to bet she used Bob Martin's!

[/quote]

We had great results with Droplix!! The only one we had with toxicity problems was the vicars dog. The drops were a year out of date and had been kept on the window sill!!!

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:33:33 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

With regards to this one Richard - I'm willing to bet she used Bob Martin's!

[/quote]

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

sue dorey — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 07:36:55 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"] Permethrin toxicity? ie Bob Martin's dog flea products.[/quote]

There were no products such as these used. sue

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Laurence Webb — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:38:46 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

Have had four confirmed Permethrin toxicities in cats - all survived. [quote user="Richard Carter"]

Re fitting cats - anyone ever seen or heard of fitting post frontline combo ? 8 y.o DHS fitting epileptiform 2 days after application which then abated over 24 hr after washing and diazepam/ torb. Tried to find out if any other chemicals around but owner absolutely sure was frontline and never used anything else on this patient or on her other animals.

[/quote]

With regards to this one Richard - I'm willing to bet she used Bob Martin's!

[/quote]

Ask the owner to bring the packaging in so you can check (if reluctent you could suggest that you ought to notify the manufacturers incase it's a rogue batch)

Re Permethrin poisoning - we don't get as many as I used to in my previous practice, but generally have success with them. The worst took 4 days on a propofol infusion before we could get it settled enough to reduce to Diazepam.

I'm sure we used methocarbimol in that one (without success) on the advice of VPIS. Perhaps based on Bob's advice to them!

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

jd2008 — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:13:47 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

We have a good record with permethrin toxicity treatment in cats. In 2008 we had a very sick one that we treated with Robaxin 750mg tablets 1/4 tablet crushed in water given rectally twice daily.

The idea came from an article by one of the American rescue societies that I picked up on an internet search. It acts as a muscle relaxant. Unfortunately I have tried a similar google hunt but get pages of 'buy robaxin without a prescription' rubbish.

Has anyone else tried this? As I cannot find the original article I feel quite loathed to try it again despite its apparent success!

VPIS had not heard of this as a treatment.

Two in contact cats with similar symptoms strongly suggest access to a toxin - recheck the flowers from the supermarket. It is amazing just how toxic some of them can be!

Sorry pressed the suggest as an answer button by mistake

[/quote]

Yep. This is actually the treatment of choice as it controls the profound muscle tremors and is less CNS depressive than diazepam or phenobarb. Luckily over here in Oz we have an iv injectable form. Haven't seen a permethrin tox in a cat yet in our ICU (though saw many in the UK) but have seen plenty slug and snail bait ingestions in dogs. These guys get guaphenesin iv.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Simon Neuhoff — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:02:07 GMT

Have had four confirmed Permethrin toxicities in cats - all survived. [quote user="Richard Carter"]

[/quote]

With regards to this one Richard - I'm willing to bet she used Bob Martin's!

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Richard Carter — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:02:27 GMT

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Bob Russell — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:27:13 GMT

We have a good record with permethrin toxicity treatment in cats. In 2008 we had a very sick one that we treated with Robaxin 750mg tablets 1/4 tablet crushed in water given rectally twice daily.

Has anyone else tried this? As I cannot find the original article I feel quite loathed to try it again despite its apparent success!

VPIS had not heard of this as a treatment.

Two in contact cats with similar symptoms strongly suggest access to a toxin - recheck the flowers from the supermarket. It is amazing just how toxic some of them can be!

Sorry pressed the suggest as an answer button by mistake

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:52:53 GMT

I'd get the boiler tested in case of CO poisoning.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:42:56 GMT

Sounds a bit like some organophosphate toxicity...not sure how hugely common that is in the UK.

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Heather Toft — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:30:26 GMT

I would guess that something in their history has either gone un-noticed or the owner has omitted to tell you. Have managed to save most permethrin toxicities, but when caught early, and bathed product off also. Slug bait on the other hand

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Vikki Halliday LLB — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:25:06 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

Permethrin toxicity? ie Bob Martin's dog flea products.

[/quote] I would think this is possible, but the ones I have seen get worse and worse in spite of anaesthesia never mind just sedation! The last one was euthanised as we could not control the seizures during GA and the prognosis was pretty poor. No Lilies in the flowers or garden ? Or access to any bulbs or similar in garden?

Re: cat toxicity causing fitting

Simon Neuhoff — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:25:17 GMT

Permethrin toxicity? ie Bob Martin's dog flea products.