stoned dog?or not?

RE: stoned dog?or not?

Sammy82 — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 10:20:39 GMT

Thanks. If you meant my case, he was perfectly back to normal 4 hours after presentation incl temperature.

RE: stoned dog?or not?

Julie Lavis — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 05:23:22 GMT

I have seen quite a lot of dogs which have eaten cannabis. This sounds typical. I would add that, if it is cannabis I recommend frequent TPR, ( at least 2 hourly to start with ) as I have found temperature regulation, both too hot and too cold can be a real problem - worst case was a 2 kg Pomeranian which was very hypothermic. My usual is Clinical exam. bloods, Iv fluids and activated charcoal every 6 hours in a / d with the expectation that they should be ok to discharge in 12 - 18 hours. I am usually v direct about asking if they have had access to cannabis and mostly people will give you a straightish answer if pressed, explained that v serious for the dog. Give an accurate estimate for 18 hours work and most paid cash at discharge. However some will have other excitable toxins such as mushrooms and ecstasy so be prepared to repeat clinical examination to ensure they are stable / improving as they should be over the next few hours. Hope this helps but probably your dog is better by now?

RE: stoned dog?or not?

grumpyoldman — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 22:51:52 GMT

If its "Gange" they are always better in the morning, they have usually just nicked it from the coffee table. Sometimes they will pass a shrivelled chunk of cling film coated "rocky remnant" the day after, the owners maybe keen to recover this. You can usually smell it on the owners and make sure you get paid on discharge as they have a habit of registering as Mr Esposito ,Clark Kent , Tony Stark etc.

RE: stoned dog?or not?

Nicola Cole — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:44:52 GMT

Hmm, i had a dog presenting similarly a couple of years ago and don't remember all the details now but put it down to raiding the bin and eating nicotine replacement chewing gum (which I think also contains xylitol as aside) as causes initial tachycardia but then bradycardia ( I may have remembered that wrong)...but maybe was cannabis then! Very respectable looking client though....

RE: stoned dog?or not?

Sammy82 — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:56:22 GMT

I saw a similar case this week. Young Labrador, had been taken out for a walk at lunchtime in an area that's apparently known for people gathering at night and taking drugs and fly tipping. The dog was then alone in the house for 4 hours. The owner came home to find him severly ataxic. She brought him straight in. The symptoms were:

-Ataxia like drunk, able to walk but front end going in different direction from back legs, even when he was lying.

-Mydriasis, unfocused gaze with jerky eye movements, seemed to have trouble focusing on people/things, sclera a little bloodshot

-just wanting to lie down all the time

- hypersensitive to light/touching of face when trying to examine eye

-borderline bradycardia (HR 63 bpm)

-incontinence, leaving puddles where ever he was lying, urine very dilute 1.005, nad on dipstick

- bloodprofile (Chem17, Haem, Lytes) unremarkable.

I kept him in for observation, and as I was strongly suspecting Cannabis at this point did not give him any treatment. 2 hours later his eyes looked a lot clearer, less bloodshot, and he seemed to be able to focus a bit better but was still ataxic and looking around with jerky eye movements. Another 2 hours later he was back to his normal bouncy self with no symptoms whatsoever.

I found this article quoting a Canadian vet who apparently said that sudden onset of incontinence paired with a stoned appearance was almost pathognomic for Cannabis intoxication in dogs. http://www.leafscience.com/2014/01/25/marijuana-pets-poison-medicine/

An interesting case, and thankfully making a quick recovery.

Re: stoned dog?or not?

mariette asselbergs — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:22:09 GMT

"Similar cases I've seen I've attrbuted to organophophate / carbamate toxicity (gave atropine q4hrs as requred and symptomatc treatment), but seems unlikely n a student flat!"

I have seen plenty dogs with organo phosphate (dip) poisoning, but they have myosis and only mydriasis after treatment with atropine. (We took the mydriasis as a monitoring sign for the next dose of atropine.)They also show general twitching/shivering, salivation, sometimes vomiting and diarrhoea, and a high heart rate.

The OP's dog sounds more l;ike the opposite to all this.

Mariette

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:36:33 GMT

[quote user="Erika Vernia"]

I'd like to have an opinion on a 1year old Dachshund, female spayed, that was brought tonight at the practice with a confusing presentation:

- mydriasis

- hyper reactive to touch (reacts contracting neck muscles)

- hypothermia (37.5)

- bradycardia (48bpm)

Normal lymphnodes, mucous membranes normal, good hydration, refill time 2 sec, chest auscultation unremarkable, as the abdominal palpation. Orthopedic and neurological examination normal, neck not stiff , back not painful.

[/quote]

Sorry these were the signs

The other interesting signs was the nystagmus, not classically flicking but the eyes were moving jerkily as it tried to track people

Neil

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:34:11 GMT

I know this is dredging up an old post, but the joy of this forum is it acts as CPD

I had one of these 3 days ago and with exactly the same signs including the bradycardia where the poisons book says tachycardia initially and bradycardia later.

The additional sign was the ataxia that affected the hind legs, where it sat up but was frog legged, but could stand on all 4 legs supported and this was pointed out in the book as a major sign.

The dog had raided the bin an hour before and there were cannabis butts in there. My query is how much does it take?

Happy New Year

Neil

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Tim Cheyne — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:24:21 GMT

I have seen only one case of certain cannabis toxicity; a young fit Alsatian happily asleep on the sofa but otherwise normal apart from an incredibly slow pulse. The owner and his brother-in-law were also stoned so I left all three to sleep it off. A police dog handler later confirmed that they saw the same symptoms when a sniffer dog in training ate the bait instead of pointing to it.

Tim.

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Graham Bilbrough — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:07:47 GMT

What about the concentration of eosinophils? Would you say this dog had a "relaxed leucogram"?

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:51:10 GMT

I had a simialr case several years while doing a charity clinic locum.

An 18 month old female westie belonging to a student presented 3am in status epilepticus. Otherwise had been well/normal, no clinical history and no history of seizures. unresponsive to diazapam, and needed sagattal to stabilise. Pyrexic (t106f) and hypoglycaemic, but stabilising glucose and temperature made no difference. No other bloods were run other than glucose. The 3 young students denied that any iilegal drugs could have been ingested despite being assured that information was confidential and police would not be told, and advising that we needed to know otherwise your dog could well die.

They later telephoned and informed me that the dog "could have ingested slug bait from the university grounds". We discovered that the University do not use any, where upon the students admitted the dog had swallowed an ecstasy tablet! She needed sagattal for 24 hours, and was hyperaesthetic for a further 2 days, but made a full recovery.

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:22:46 GMT

?? muscarine mushrooms

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Bob Russell — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:09:39 GMT

Ask the question and warn them if they are not truthful the dog could die!!! At least in theory it might - it could walk out in front of a car in a confused state!!!

A little fear tends to overcome any shyness about recreational substances. Just make sure you make it clear you are not the Police!

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Nixthevet — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:46:51 GMT

it sounds very suspicious to me...and yes they do get the munchies too!

Working in the centre of LIverpool we used to see quite a few cases and although a few owners admitted that the dog had had access to cannabis ( always somebody elses of course!), there were many who didn't. We were sometimes a bit naughty and told them we needed to know or the dog might die....and that usually resulted in a telephone call just after we'd admitted the animal to say they'd suddenly found a half-chewed suspicious package ( again always left there by someone else) when they got home!!

We basically monitored, put on IV if very flat and let them sleep it off. These were often charity cases so didn;t have extensive bloods etc. but I guess with private cases it would depend on your index of suspicion and a conversation with the owner re other differentials. If they know it's really cannabis they'd probably decline them.

its a funny old world!

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:20:25 GMT

[quote user="David Beattie"]Only seen a couple of cases was sure were cannabis toxicosis put them in quite cages and both recovered - beleve treatment s symptomatc,[/quote]

Do you need to offer them food for the munchies?

[quote user="Erika Vernia"]I asked her ten thousand times if the dog has been left alone in a room with "medications", "substances", "poisons", but she denied, saying that the dog was with her on the sofa all afternoon.[/quote]

I'm no fan of the beating around the bush approach. I have asked if the dog could have eaten cannabis on two occasions, both said no. It's harder to evade a direct question [basic psychology]. There are times when open questions don't yield the required information!

[quote user="Erika Vernia"]Does anybody have an opinion on this case? Any differentials you would think of?[/quote]

A night in a quiet kennel on a drip is surprisingly curative in these cases. You also remove the dog from the owner so they can't bother you in the night. I know all the books state CRT less than 2 seconds normal, but in a healthy dog with good peripheral perfusion it's usually fairly instant. If it took a full 2 seconds could be abnormal? If you can measure electrolytes I'd do so. I can't so if I suspect there is a tiny possibility of Addisons then a little dex can save their life.

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:04:32 GMT

Similar cases I've seen I've attrbuted to organophophate / carbamate toxicity (gave atropine q4hrs as requred and symptomatc treatment), but seems unlikely n a student flat!

Only seen a couple of cases was sure were cannabis toxicosis (only one confessed, the other mentioned the dog had been mssing in an area where 'there have been a few cannabis fields closed recently'). Both were tachycardic, but gather from http://www.vet.cornell.edu/consultant/Consult.asp?Fun=Cause_2168&spc=All&dxkw=&sxkw=bradycardia&signs=1-EB11-C0P that your sgns could fit wth this; put them in quite cages and both recovered - beleve treatment s symptomatc, though my boss told me that orange juice s supposed to help.

Can't thnk of much other than toxicities; doesn't sound like Addsons, but maybe check Na:K ratio if can (<25:1 pretty indicative of Addisons, though higher ratios don't rule it out) if dog crtcal then would take serum sample pror to test dose of dexamethasone f you felt indiacted (that way can send for basal cortisol later f wsh); I'm assuming f she was 3wks post-pup wth eclampsia that would have shown up on history + biochem also... bit stuck for any other differentals...

Re: stoned dog?or not?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:53:53 GMT

[quote user="Erika Vernia"]but she denied, saying that the dog was with her on the sofa all afternoon.[/quote]

And what was she doing on the sofa all afternoon?