the end of private pratice?

Re: the end of private pratice?

james hunt — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:05:12 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Kirby"]

I totally agree! Worse still, the RCVS only really have jurustiction over individual Vets and so, it seems, the non vet-owned corporates fall outside of the RCVS's control.

[/quote]

Possibly the reason for the practice standards scheme? not that i'm suggesting that it is an effective means of controlling non-veterinary surgeon owned practices, but I imagine this may have been the RCVS intention?

Re: the end of private pratice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:03:44 GMT

That's one of the reasons they want a new VSA-to control the corporates-by having elected veterinary surgeons in a minority on Council !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why can't I see the logic ???????????, and why were they so short-sighted not to have realised in advance that they were creating an ungovernable monster ????????????

Wynne

Re: the end of private pratice?

Jonathan Kirby — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:13:56 GMT

[quote user="Rob Wilson"]

I agree totally. I think the worst thing that the RCVS ever did was to allow non-vets to own veterinary practices. I am lucky in that I am a partner in a 2.5 vet independent practice and I wouldn't change it for the world! We have a few corporates round us and we get a steady stream of clients from them.

[/quote]

I totally agree! Worse still, the RCVS only really have jurustiction over individual Vets and so, it seems, the non vet-owned corporates fall outside of the RCVS's control.

Re: the end of private pratice?

sophia guymer — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:26:28 GMT

[quote user="katja wagner"]

Brilliant ,many thanks again!!

katja

[/quote]

Thanks for getting this sorted for all of us, Katja!

And of course, Arlo, thanks for sorting it out!

Re: the end of private pratice?

katja wagner — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:42:40 GMT

Brilliant ,many thanks again!!

katja

Re: the end of private pratice?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:45:09 GMT

Katja, that issue is now fixed. Viewing the results page of a search on VetSurgeon now requires login. So if you now search for "Katja Wagner veterinary surgeon", the search result it currently returns from VetSurgeon cannot be seen unless you are a registered and signed in member of the site.

We have also stopped Google from being able to view or display those search pages, though again, it will only take immediate effect with new posts. Older ones will be removed as Google re-spiders the site.

Re: the end of private pratice?

katja wagner — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:45:57 GMT

Thanks Arlo

katja

Re: the end of private pratice?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:55:49 GMT

Katja,

I am so sorry, you're right. The vetsurgeon search page should require login. I'll get that fixed tomorrow.

Arlo

Re: the end of private pratice?

katja wagner — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:30:35 GMT

Hi Arlo,

just tried "katja wagner veterinary surgeon" brings up " search-vetsurgeon" if you click on this you can read my latest comment and many more.

katja

Re: the end of private pratice?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:59:10 GMT

PS, if you want to reassure yourself, try typing "the end of private practice vetsurgeon" into google and look at the results it returns. There are a couple of links to this forum thread, but it no longer shows content posted by members.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:55:03 GMT

[quote user="katja wagner"]have just googled my name and the name of forum which brought up a page showing quotes of posts i have written in the past feel a bit shocked about this ![/quote]

Hi Katja

Someone else raised this point a little while ago, and we changed the settings on the site so that Google can no longer read the content of a forum post.

However, it could take a very long time for this to apply retrospectively to posts made before we made this change.

I searched google for "Katja Wagner VetSurgeon" and it came up with one forum post from last year. I see it is also returning the results of searches on vetsurgeon, which is curious, and I will investigate further next week.

Meantime, google in any case only publishes a very short excerpt, rendering it usually meaningless (certainly was in the results I got when searching your name).

Re: the end of private pratice?

Tim Cheyne — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:06:03 GMT

[quote user="katja wagner"]

have just googled my name and the name of forum which brought up a page showing quotes of posts i have written in the past feel a bit shocked about this !

I dont mean to hide my opinion but certainly did not expect to find it on google where everybody can read parts of my comments out of context.

katja

[/quote]

I don't think that being a vet-only forum would prevent search engines from ferreting out you comments any more than does simple membership.

Tim.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Bob Russell — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:36:38 GMT

[quote user="katja wagner"]

I always was under the impression that only veterinary surgeons have access to this forum not sure what to think now.

have just googled my name and the name of forum which brought up a page showing quotes of posts i have written in the past feel a bit shocked about this !

I dont mean to hide my opinion but certainly did not expect to find it on google where everybody can read parts of my comments out of context.

katja

[/quote]

I am totally converted - it has always been a sad (and rather pathetic) fact that I have googled myself in the past and found zilch. Now I google myself and there I am. On one New Zealand equine site I have been promoted to Dr Bob - my ego hath no bounds now!!!!!

Re: the end of private pratice?

katja wagner — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:46:46 GMT

I always was under the impression that only veterinary surgeons have access to this forum not sure what to think now.

have just googled my name and the name of forum which brought up a page showing quotes of posts i have written in the past feel a bit shocked about this !

I dont mean to hide my opinion but certainly did not expect to find it on google where everybody can read parts of my comments out of context.

katja

Re: the end of private pratice?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:56:10 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]I wish I could say I have the same opinion, but I felt pressurised working in private practice and I have seen questionnable things being done for the sake of money.[/quote]

Some aspects of this thread have not been considered viz:

Owner's expectations.

Your opinion, diagnosis and prognosis are now no longer accepted without ancillary tests. An obvious renal failure with the classic uraemic mouth ulcers need bloods, at least, and I've been asked, nay demanded, that I X-ray a dead road accident!

I really question the quality of life of some, in fact most, of the chemotherapeutics but this is taught and increasingly expected by clients

For the sake of money.

We measure the parameters which we think are good medicine. viz, microchipping, worming, analgesia, dentals, lab tests, x-rays etc. and these vary between vets by 100% or more. Some vets don't do enough dentals, in fact 10 times less statistically which I think is bad care, given than 100 cats will have roughly the same number of bad teeth.

The vets who do the least of these good care procedures, and do the least in general, are usually the ones who moan about the mercenary boss....

It's an easy excuse.

We give the vets total therapeutic freedom and make the best drug deals we can, based on their preferences. However when we have clinical discussions we find there is an enormous differences in protocols and preferences but tiny amounts of evidence to support any one so it's not that easy.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Rob Reid — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:16:16 GMT

[quote user="Phil Elkins"]You've changed! The old Rob would have been more interested in a 3 day trip to Barcelona on rugby tour![/quote]

As would the old Phil haha!!

Don't know about me changing though - I would consider that to be time well spent with friends and pursuing hobbies......what's all this nonsense about 3 days as well? It was 5 days I recall (although some did miss a fair portion of the tour in recovery mode or passed out in a train station - James Kerr!!!)

Happy days - nice to reminded

Re: the end of private pratice?

Phil Elkins — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:19:08 GMT

[quote user="Rob Reid"]There is a lot more to life than money and as cheesey as it may sound, for me going home at the end of the day feeling like I have made a difference gives me a lot more fulfilment than the material things. There is more to life than money - time well spent with family, friends and pursuing hobbies is far more valuable to me than a fancy car, Armani suit etc etc. [/quote]

You've changed! The old Rob would have been more interested in a 3 day trip to Barcelona on rugby tour!

Re: the end of private pratice?

HERETIC — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:40:28 GMT

obviously you weren't looking round here. Private practices exist in Ipswich, Hadleigh, Woodbridge and Felixstowe. When we advertised fairly recently we had no experienced vets apply & now have a new graduate. I Thought you all wanted to work for corporates! or possibly not in the East of England as I know it.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:15:37 GMT

hear hear

Re: the end of private pratice?

Rob Reid — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:31:54 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Depends on how you define successful I guess. My definition is a loyal core of satisfied clients who venerate me, with their pets treated to the best of my ability and for me to have a better standard of living than my parents and not to have to worry about whether I can afford to pay the mortgage or my children's university fees. If ones definition of suceess is to drive a £100,000 car, live in a mansion and be able to go to St Moritz for 3 weeks every winter and the Seychelles every summer then I guess I'm very unsuccessful but am I any less happy? As Lance Armstrong would say: 'Its not about the bike'.[/quote]

Completely agree with you - and I think the vast majority of vets feel the same. There is a lot more to life than money and as cheesey as it may sound, for me going home at the end of the day feeling like I have made a difference gives me a lot more fulfilment than the material things. There is more to life than money - time well spent with family, friends and pursuing hobbies is far more valuable to me than a fancy car, Armani suit etc etc.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Mark Holmes — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:40:12 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Mark Follow the Gto PC, and OFFER gold star treatment but don't force it-that way the clients can choose within their budgets

Wynne

[/quote]

But you still have to determine at what stage "Gold Star treatment" becomes "over treatment" I do not intend to be confrontational but I have worked in places where (in my opinion) the two have been confused.

In my example of the old cat with haematuria, I have discussed neoplasia and urolithiasis and said that scanning would allow us to determine what is happening. You still run into the question "What do you think we should do Doc?" To me I find it difficult to argue that diagnosing neoplasia or urolithiasis in a couple of weeks when antiobiotics have failed carries fewer stars. Ok so bladder ultrasound is very simple and straight forward and it is easy to say "ok, if we are concerned lets pop the scanner on and have a look" without it being desperately expensive, but as an example it serves a point. We have to determine if our "Gold Star treatment" really makes a great deal of difference or is it really just a way of saying "How can we increase the revenue from this case" Do we need to diagnose this in 2 hrs or can we do it a little cheaper and diagnose this in 3 days providing it at no detriment to the animal.

The reason I make the point is whilst animals are insured it is all our interests to consider the health of insurance companies for the future. If Gold Star Treatment loads the insurance companies excessively and unnecessarily then we risk the future of the profession. In all honesty I am more comfortable with offering "Gold Star" in all circumstances to NON INSURED clients poviding the likelyhood that the extra spend will bring benefits is made clear. Then it really is their decision and THEIR money they are spending. I maintain that all my patients get Gold Star for them and their condition, but I am comfortable with getting there a little slower, avoiding the need for unnecessary diagnositics and giving nature chance to do a bit herself.

I realise there is then a question of where do we make a living but I think the profession needs to resolve these things. Is there a resolution?

Re: the end of private pratice?

Amie Glaves — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:17:25 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]I think one needs to determine what is overcharging, excessive fees for a proceedure or excessive "selling" of a proceedure for example pre ga bloods on 6 month old cats pre castration.[/quote]

How many vets do AP bloods on their own pets? From my experience we fall into 2 categories:

1) the paranoid vet who runs every test possible because their pet may have something wierd and wonderful!

2) ah sod it they'll probabaly be ok!

Unfortunately I fall into the latter... And by the way I am not hypocritical by talking clients into it for their pets! I discuss the pros and cons and let them decide.

Re: the end of private pratice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:45:16 GMT

Mark Follow the Gto PC, and OFFER gold star treatment but don't force it-that way the clients can choose within their budgets

Wynne

Re: the end of private pratice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:41:58 GMT

Allowing corporate practice was one of RCVSs greatest mistakes. I takled a Council member on the subject, and was told they had been pressurised by the OFT, but they didn't exactly fight hard to resist the pressure

Wynne

Re: the end of private pratice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:25:39 GMT

I agree with Martin-loyal appreciative clients, and enough money to pay (in my case ) the horses' livery fees

Wynne