Brushing dogs teeth

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

sophia guymer — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:56:15 GMT

Fair enough, thanks for clearing that up!

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]dried tripe sticks (yum, the favourite!) [/quote] Yes they are a great favourite here too! Its one of the few non raw things he gets

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:19:24 GMT

[quote user="sophia guymer"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Not at all, why do you say that?

[/quote]

Because you have just cleaned their teeth and now giving them something again which can start the whole process straight away again?

[/quote]

No, no, big misconception.

The object of brushing (whether literal brushing, or rawhide chews, or TD, or RMB or Dentastix) is to remove most of the plaque from the tooth surface, or at least to stir it up, so that it never gets a chance to become thick and accumulate subgingivally. Plaque will start to form again within a couple of hours of brushing (maybe sooner) whatever you do. The formation is interestingly complicated, but simple in principle: it starts with the invisible "salivary pellicle", to which adhere certain species of bacteria which are capable of doing so. To these adhere lots more bacteria of many species. Various salivary mucins and things help form a matrix, as do various things derived from food, but plaque forms whether you eat or starve. If not regularly disturbed the plaque thickens and in its depths various nasty aggressive bacteria, mostly anaerobes, are encouraged. These produce exotoxins and endotoxins which break down the tissue defences in various ways. The gingival cleft gets deeper as the periodontal tissue is attacked, allowing thicker plaque to accumulate and more anaerobic bacteria to proliferate.....................

All these species of bacteria are in your mouth all the time. They do not come from food.

And, little rawhide chews or pigs' ears or dried tripe sticks (yum, the favourite!) make good post-brushing treats.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

sophia guymer — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:32:33 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Not at all, why do you say that?

[/quote]

Because you have just cleaned their teeth and now giving them something again which can start the whole process straight away again?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 18:33:54 GMT

[quote user="sophia guymer"]

Didn't look very practical to me at all, have not used it, just found it when looking for pictures to show students.

[/quote]

Wow!

You're right, it has got three segments. What on earth is the point of the middle one? It's obviously designed by someone who knows nothing about veterinary dentistry.

[quote user="sophia guymer"]Though I totally understand the purpose of the treat afterwards, is that not slightly defeating the purpose?[/quote]

Not at all, why do you say that?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Bob Russell — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:45:32 GMT

[quote user="stephen sargent"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"] I don't attempt to brush the lingual or palatal sides of teeth anyway,[/quote]

Is this really not necessary, or just impractical in most dogs and cats?

[/quote]

Both!

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

sophia guymer — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:10:46 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Surely not three-sided? What would be the point?) [/quote]

Didn't look very practical to me at all, have not used it, just found it when looking for pictures to show students.

Thanks for that, very helpful! not so much the actual brushing bit, but the where to sit, how to hold head etc. Would have tried to look. Though I totally understand the purpose of the treat afterwards, is that not slightly defeating the purpose?

Sophia

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Bob Russell — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:06:50 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"][quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Surely pressure receptors in the periodontal ligaments offer protection against tooth fractures?[/quote]

To some extent, of course, just as receptors in your leg offer protection against ligament ruptures.............. in other words, it still happens.

I am constantly treating slab fractures of carnassials and other cheek teeth, (but not extracting if I can possibly help it). Maybe you are not seeing these patients?

BUT when did I say "never give bones and always brush" ?

[/quote] Are these slab fractures associated with bone chewing or stone chewing/other trauma. Bones have been so widely discouraged actually very few clients allow them now. I see slab fractures I cannot remember seeing one that was known to be or likely to have been caused by a bone.

[/quote]

My collie fractured a canine on a bone a locum brought in for her dog. 'Subsidised' vet cost for root canal work £500 - a lot more than the locum cost. Slab fractures seem to be quite common but owners and dare I say vets seem to miss them. I have had a number of new patients with old slab fractures that vets have decided do not require attention - try getting out of that without embarrassing someone!

Either I appear too eager for surgery to be done or the previous vets are seen to have done an inadequate job!

With my dog I took one of the nurses over to the referral vet, spent the morning there and was charged as CPD!! A very informative and useful morning for both of us (and CPD is tax deductible!)

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:52:43 GMT

[quote user="stephen sargent"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"] I don't attempt to brush the lingual or palatal sides of teeth anyway,[/quote]

Is this really not necessary, or just impractical in most dogs and cats?

[/quote]

Fortunately it seems not strictly necessary, although it would be better if one could brush the lingual/palatal sides of the smaller premolars, especially the mandibular ones. Sometimes one can. Sometimes the canines need deliberate brushing there. Don't forget that one will be looking at diet and encouraging chews, too.

Don't just tell 'em to go away and brush. Each patient needs an individual oral hygiene plan.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

stephen sargent — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:43:16 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"] I don't attempt to brush the lingual or palatal sides of teeth anyway,[/quote]

Is this really not necessary, or just impractical in most dogs and cats?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:38:40 GMT

[quote user="sophia guymer"]Yes please[/quote]

Well, you asked for it.

Those finger-stall brushes are horrible. They just make your finger so thick and clumsy so you probably can't get it where you want it and the cat or dog hates it......... the cat will probably bite your finger through the "brush".

Some animals you may need to start using your bare finger just rubbing the paste on the teeth....... this is just introductory as only the most determined owner will get the finger to the most caudal teeth. Beware, your finger can get "accidentally" bitten. Other animals can start with the brush straight away. Personally I don't faff with cloths.

For a dog: use the double-ended brush I have mentioned. Most dogs need the large end; the small one is for really little dogs. Wet the brush and load it generously with a proper dentifrice designed for dogs. Go and find the dog. Get him to sit. Get comfortable BEHIND him with him between your knees. For small to medium dogs you kneel, for larger ones you squat, for big ones you may need to stand.Hold the dog's head up a little using your non-brush hand under his chin. Hold the brush lightly. Introduce the brush inside his cheek and slide it back along the teeth to the back of the buccal cavity. (I always have to show owners just how far back the back teeth are: "Look" I say, "the end of the brush is way behind his eye".) Do NOT open the mouth and try to look at what you are doing. Slide the brush back and forth two or three times. Angle it downwards a bit and do the same. That's that side brushed. Reload the brush and do the other side. Now hold the brush like a pen and do the front teeth: the upper canines with a circular sort of motion, the incisors with an up-and-down motion, and the lower canines by pushing the brush down from crown to gum. The lower canines are the only difficult bit because the gum line often seems to hide under the lip, and certainly if there has been much width lost from the gingiva the exposed dentine area can need a little bit of force applied to the brush. The little end can be useful there. Praise the dog extravagantly and give a treat. Keep the treats and the brush and paste all stored in one place.

The principles are the same for a cat but it is tricky to get the brush to the molar teeth. Usually you need to use your non-brush hand on top of the head, and your thumb or forefinger to retract the cheek. The sweeping with the brush is more unidirectional, caudal to rostral, than back-and-forth.

Do not make a big deal of it or get into a struggle. It's far better to do a bit every day, even if it's rather haphazard and you miss bits (you'll get those bits the next day), than to aim for perfection, fail and end up not doing it at all.

I've never tried those two-sided brushes.(Surely not three-sided? What would be the point?) They seem to be too thick and clumsy, and since dogs come in a wide range of sizes I'm not sure they would fit all dogs. I don't attempt to brush the lingual or palatal sides of teeth anyway, unless there is some particular lesion that needs specific attention and is accessible. However, if they work for you............

There you are Oy!

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

sophia guymer — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:41:57 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]if you would like me to return an element of tedious seriousness to this thread, I will.[/quote]

Yes please

I always assumed it was just as with children?

Also tell people to start off with using uncovered fingers, then start with some cloth, then use finger brush to finally be allowed to use a real brush.

I have to talk to my students about tooth brushing soon, got some pictures on my power point presentation of some toothbrushes I have never seen before, with brushes on 3 different directions presumably with the idea it will brush all sides of the tooth at the same time. Any good?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:26:09 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"][quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Many veterinary surgeons and nurses have no idea how to brush teeth. I have seen pictures in client leaflets that have it all wrong.[/quote] What's the secret?

[/quote]

There's no secret, just a right way to do it.

It's easier to demonstrate than put into words, but if you would like me to return an element of tedious seriousness to this thread, I will.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

bob lehner — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 12:07:42 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

I thought that was my mother for a moment!

[/quote]

Well that's weird - I must have been married to your sister at one time - your mother and my former mother-in-law appear to be the same.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Mark Holmes — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:36:56 GMT

I would put myself up for adoption if my mother dressed like that!

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

bob lehner — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:31:04 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

I thought that was my mother for a moment!

[/quote]

The one on the side or the one in the water ?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Mark Holmes — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:05:08 GMT

I thought that was my mother for a moment!

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Simon Neuhoff — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:55:09 GMT

[/quote]

Well, first you need the right size toothbrush.....

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Edward Jones — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 07:04:00 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Many veterinary surgeons and nurses have no idea how to brush teeth. I have seen pictures in client leaflets that have it all wrong.[/quote] What's the secret?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Mark Holmes — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 23:53:40 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Surely pressure receptors in the periodontal ligaments offer protection against tooth fractures?[/quote]

To some extent, of course, just as receptors in your leg offer protection against ligament ruptures.............. in other words, it still happens.

I am constantly treating slab fractures of carnassials and other cheek teeth, (but not extracting if I can possibly help it). Maybe you are not seeing these patients?

BUT when did I say "never give bones and always brush" ?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 23:46:41 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Surely pressure receptors in the periodontal ligaments offer protection against tooth fractures?[/quote]

To some extent, of course, just as receptors in your leg offer protection against ligament ruptures.............. in other words, it still happens.

I am constantly treating slab fractures of carnassials and other cheek teeth, (but not extracting if I can possibly help it). Maybe you are not seeing these patients?

BUT when did I say "never give bones and always brush" ?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Mark Holmes — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 16:24:28 GMT

I would have to vote for the heretics on this one, bones do seem to do a much better job.... sorry Evelyn Yes they can probably lose a tooth to a fracture but I have rarely needed to remove a tooth fractured chewing a bone, and compared to those I have removed due to periodontal dz I think bones win.

Surely pressure receptors in the periodontal ligaments offer protection against tooth fractures?

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 16:07:27 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]My cat has renal insufficiency so eats mostly wet food, which is not great for plaque accumulation.[/quote]

Inexplicably Established Myth no. 936: "A dry diet discourages plaque accumulation".

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 16:03:33 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I'm not getting an electric one for the sodding dog. What do you recommend good sir?[/quote]

The double-ended ones that are now - I think - under the Virbac brand. (NOT the single-ended ones with handles like truncheons that come in the Parodongyl box).

For reasons that I still do not understand, you can no longer get a decent cat toothbrush, other than as part of an expensive "kit" the rest of which you do not want. I am reduced to recommending clients to go to Boots and look for a "Baby's First Toothbrush".

Many veterinary surgeons and nurses have no idea how to brush teeth. I have seen pictures in client leaflets that have it all wrong.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Louise6732 — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 07:40:11 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I'm not getting an electric one for the sodding dog.[/quote]

I would like to see brushing attempted with an electric toothbrush in most animals! Haha

I use a baby toothbrush for my cat from a chemist. My main motivation for brushing is that I can't bear the halitosis! My cat has renal insufficiency so eats mostly wet food, which is not great for plaque accumulation. Although... not to ignite a new debate, but I gave him a raw chicken wing a few weeks ago and his breath was fantastic (as much as a cat's can be!) for about 1 week! Lasted much longer than than brushing does.

Re: Brushing dogs teeth

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:54:15 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

"Finger toothbrushes" are useless - nay, worse than useless - in my opinion of course

[/quote]

I'm not getting an electric one for the sodding dog. What do you recommend good sir?