giant rabbit castration

Re: giant rabbit castration

Vikki Halliday LLB — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:20:25 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Bit confused here. In your first post you suggested you didn't like my technique because of the danger of incising the tunica but now you seem to suggest you do just that still with your technique. [/quote]

Nope. Ok so the "dog type" method of one hole, means that in small rabbits I invariably end up incising the tunic by accident, and then need to find a way to suture it up so there is no risk of herniation. It is also much harder to peel away the distal portion of the tuic from the scrotal sac through a hole some 3cm cranial to caudal portion of the scrotum.

When I was shown the "cat type" method, you also cut through the tunic, but delibarately, and then it is also easier to tie off rather than suture once you have peeled the distal portion from the interior of the scrotum. I was also sceptical about not suturing the skin, but rabbit skin seems to glue itself together very fast, (minutes) and never yet had a problem. It also seems to be the method advised in rabbit texts/cpd.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Vikki Halliday LLB — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:15:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Nothing wrong with cut and pull as long as they are small! I tie most but have never had a problem before. Apparently should not cut and pull orientals - bleed but this may be heresay!

[/quote]

Cat castrations:

Definately not. Only cat castrate that ever bled on me was my friend's Burmese, (and of course it was cream coated too). After giving it dom/torb I castrated it on her Milton Scrubbed kitchen worktop as a favour. Prior to that only ever did twist and pull, and never had a problem in 4 years. Then, disaster struck!.

Only cat I ever had to go back into at 11pm that night to find the bleeding cord, and since then have knotted the cords back on themselves with a pair of mosquito forceps, or if not available, separated vas and vessels and knotted.

Never ever use catgut or anything else to ligate, leads to more risk of stump infection.

Two bricks work well too if frustrated.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Bob Russell — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:01:20 GMT

Nothing wrong with cut and pull as long as they are small! I tie most but have never had a problem before. Apparently should not cut and pull orientals - bleed but this may be heresay!

Re: giant rabbit castration

Kate Dawes — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:07:30 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I'm wary of leaving an open scrotal wound with all the sh1t the rabbit sits in!![/quote]

I do it like this too (as Vicki)- I ligate the vessels and suture the tunic. I used to suture the skin, but a colleague years ago taught me to roll the skin between my fingers and leave it. They heal just as quickly, and often neater than sutured or glued wounds, and I've never had any problems with infection yet. Obviously much quicker too.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:37:01 GMT

But it would only take approx 30 seconds longer to tie a knot. Why risk the hemorrhage??? And these aren't calves with numbers - they're someone's much-loved pet!

Re: giant rabbit castration

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:13:04 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Michael - are you really just doing cut and pull on cats??? [/quote]

Yes. Is how the place I saw practice did it, and then the practices I work at now use the method. Never had any bother with it. No foreign material in the wound, no fiddling about knotting the vas with the veins, no equipment needed other than a blade.

We do it to calves with much more significant vessels, I don't worry about a cat.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:27:57 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]

No, just incise through scrotum and tunic, as very closely apposed here, tie off cord and then peel remaining tunic from interior of scrotum and tie off to prevent herniation. Just don't need to close skin.

[/quote]

Bit confused here. In your first post you suggested you didn't like my technique because of the danger of incising the tunica but now you seem to suggest you do just that still with your technique. So do you or don't you? And if you do, do you incise through that tough bit of tunica that attaches to the scrotum or avoid it? Or am I just being thick? I dont like to do 'closed' techniques as I'm wary the vascular structures may slip so I incise the tunica anyway and open castrate, ligate the cord and vessels then close the tunica to prevent herniation. I'm wary of leaving an open scrotal wound with all the sh1t the rabbit sits in!!

Re: giant rabbit castration

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:55:31 GMT

Re: giant rabbit castration

Edward Jones — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:02:34 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Michael - are you really just doing cut and pull on cats??? [/quote]

I have a few times in the past. My colleague anecdotes doing an exlap on a cat that had incidentally been castrated a few days before (with cut and pull) and found a significant amount of retroperitoneal haemorrhage. Any haemorrhage is probably going to be self limiting but its avoidable.

So I tie off. But I use a welly-boot instead of anaesthetic, of course.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:51:50 GMT

I do it like Vikki - except that in young rabbits it is fairly easy to just incise the skin and peel back the scrotal skin off the tunic. Then you can tie the whole cord off at once.

Michael - are you really just doing cut and pull on cats???

Re: giant rabbit castration

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:04:28 GMT

sounds less fiddly than the closed 1 hole technique. I have only done a few [~6], but they all did ok

Re: giant rabbit castration

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:58:09 GMT

Re: giant rabbit castration

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:55:07 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]now have been shown a better way like a cat[/quote]

cut and pull?

Re: giant rabbit castration

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:45:46 GMT

I used to do them like that Martin, ( a bit like a dog, but nearly always end up going into the tunica),

But now have been shown a better way like a cat, but tying off tunic and cord, however no need for skin sutures due to good and rapid scrotal incision healing.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:58:54 GMT

I'd first question the need for castration but if it is for valid reasons I'd go on the basis that if they're big enough they're old enough. Surely if you can feel the testis in the inguinal canal you can retrieve it (they pop up and down anyway) and I would normally make my incision midline at the level of the inguinal canal and milk them up to it if they're in the scrotum.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:06:12 GMT

We recently had a 6 month old normal rabbit in for castration, and the testes were very small, 1-2cm across and length, and were not palpable until rabbit was UGA.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:59:08 GMT

Unless there is a reason to do it earlier (living with female or seen bonking etc), I tend to recommend 4-6 months for 'normal' rabbits (the bigger they are, the later they're done) - so I doubt I'd be suggesting routine castration at less than 5 months old for this bunny anyway.

Re: giant rabbit castration

Clive Ansell — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:28:28 GMT

I think as he is only 12 weeks old I would re examine in a month or so and take it from there. If not present by 6 months, then maybe then go on a hunt the testicle mission. If you try to massage down under anaesthesia now and cannot do so, it means another ga in the future.