Genitrix - Libromide

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Nicola Lawlor — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 21:33:44 GMT

Likewise we are still getting Epilease direct from the manufacturer now. Interestingly have had to swap a dog off Libromide onto Epilease due to vomiting. Dog doing fab on Epilease. We had changed onto Libromide from liquid potassium bromide that was no longer available to us through NVS. The vomiting started as soon as the dog went onto the Libromide, but settled as soon as we changed to Epilease instead.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Anonymous — Fri, 20 May 2011 10:45:52 GMT

Just picked up this thread. Epilease can be ordered directly from VetPlus by calling 01253 667422. They will ship it to you same day so no problems.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

James Laidlaw — Thu, 05 May 2011 16:38:38 GMT

My update - we can order Epilease still, but must be done directly through vet plus. Just by phoning them. I was told they are looking into trying to get a license for it, but no idea how or when by. Have just asked our clients already on this to give us a little more notice when filling repeat prescriptions than we do for everything else that arrives next day.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Bob Russell — Thu, 05 May 2011 14:46:35 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I for one will drop Genetrix products if the VetPlus product is fairly priced.[/quote]

and all other Dechra products?

[/quote]

We 'boycott' Dechra products where possible anyway because of the behaviour of NVS a few years ago. As a small practice we had a months notice that our wholesaler discount was to drop from 11% to about 4% if we were lucky!

Not sure if NVS still have this anti-small practice policy but having traded with them in one guise or another since it was owned by Mr Lloyd (as in pharmacy) I was more than a little miffed that loyalty was being re-paid in such a manner.

The poor NVS rep that came down was told not to call again as I would phone them if I needed anything and it would be when hell freezes over.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Rob Loxley — Thu, 05 May 2011 14:39:03 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I for one will drop Genetrix products if the VetPlus product is fairly priced.[/quote]

and all other Dechra products?

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 05 May 2011 13:12:04 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Is there any truth to the rumour that VetPlus is seeking a license for Epilease?

[/quote]

I believe this one is in the can for release soon. However, and the two may well be connected, I've been inundated with spam email from Genitrix about Libromide - has anyone else had this problem?

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Bob Russell — Thu, 05 May 2011 11:27:10 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"]

Is there any truth to the rumour that VetPlus is seeking a license for Epilease?

[/quote]

Should be straight forward to do the licensing as all the info is out there. I suspect the decision will be based on volumes of sales. I for one will drop Genetrix products if the VetPlus product is fairly priced.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Edward Jones — Thu, 05 May 2011 11:13:41 GMT

Is there any truth to the rumour that VetPlus is seeking a license for Epilease?

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:50:51 GMT

centaur will no longer supply epilease either !

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:39:06 GMT

Mmm - curioser and curioser - our order for Epilease (by prescription) didn't arrive from NVS so we phoned them today as the client was coming to collect some, to be told that they can now no longer supply it. Apparently this is a VMD rule as it is a non licencsed drug, and there is a licensed form available. I'm not sure why this should be the case for Epilease when it does not apply to other non licensed preparations (eg phenobarbitone 15mg tablets), but I am suspicious that Rob's answer about the ownership of NVS may be significant.

Unfortunately NVS omitted to tell us about this latest decision, even on receipt of our prescription. Cue some gnashing of teeth this morning, although thankfully the client has not run out of the drugs yet. This dog has been on Epilease for many years by the way - long before Libromide's arrival. We have more recently prescribed Libromide to other patients to follow the cascade, as we of course should...

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Rob Loxley — Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:01:32 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]for some bizarre reason NVS have decided they will only supply us with it on receipt of a Prescription[/quote]

Nothing to do with Dechra owning NVS and also Genitrix who make Libromide? Or maybe it's another product of the beloved VMD?

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Joyce Whitehead — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:43:28 GMT

We still have at least one dog on Epilease - and for some bizarre reason NVS have decided they will only supply us with it on receipt of a Prescription (as in CD items). I'm not sure why - as other off licence drugs do not have this requirement. Anyway, hopefully they will still supply it as we have just sent an order today for it.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

James Laidlaw — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:34:30 GMT

Cool - thanks.

Will check with rep but we phoned today and didn't hear back - also can't see epilease on their website's product list so that had me concerned...

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Utlendigur — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:12:19 GMT

It is still available but I think you need to order it direct. Hopefully someone else will know the details but if not I'll check the bumf that came about it at work tomorrow.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

James Laidlaw — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:03:03 GMT

Just checking - found this thread already existed.

Doing repeats today and epilease no longer available through NVS???

Has it gone altogether now? Does this mean all epilease patients have no choice under our almighty director/benevolent leaders/VMD/RCVS/GtoPC etc etc (delete as applicable) than to use Libromide?

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:00:55 GMT

Whilst vaguely on the subject I tried to order some Phenoleptil - Animalcare have taken the initiative to licence phenobarb and ITS CHEAPER. We had the bumf through a month or so ago, but no sign yet at the wholesaler

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Bob Russell — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:27:28 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

Out of curiosity has anyone actually asked the VMD directly as to what their take on this is? It is an unuaul situation in that there are identical non-licenced products available - I can't think of any other POM where this is the case. Are all these other products going to be withdrawn from the market now that they are "unlicenced"?

[/quote]

Yes - I phoned them up soon after I found out and tried to get them to justify licensing a simple salt as a POM-V. The line was that Genetrix had completed the licensing process therefore it was a medicine and all other KBr products were therefore unlicensed and technically not legal to use. I suspect I was one of the early phone calls as they seemed a little surprised by the call.

They did comment that animals already on an alternative product probably would be OK to stay on it.

They did not have a particular answer when I asked what we had to do for individuals if alternative KBrs were forced off the market.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Simon Neuhoff — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:41:19 GMT

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:07:55 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I've posted this up before but can someone please tell me why there should be any restriction whatsoever on me using Epilease if I want

[/quote]

The RCVS Guide to Professional Conduct states that the product selected to treat an animal “must be authorised for use in the UK in the target species for the condition being treated and used at the manufacturer’s recommended dosage.”

I believe this is from the medicines regulations. It is only if there is no product in this category that you can then use something under the cascade.

As Libromide is authorised for epilepsy in dogs in the UK we have to use it if we want to prescribe KBr (to new cases).

[/quote]

You are not alone in confounding the Guide with the legal Medicines Regulations. No matter. I'm afraid you haven't answered Martin's question.

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Charlotte Marshall — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:25:49 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I've posted this up before but can someone please tell me why there should be any restriction whatsoever on me using Epilease if I want

[/quote]

I believe this is from the medicines regulations. It is only if there is no product in this category that you can then use something under the cascade.

As Libromide is authorised for epilepsy in dogs in the UK we have to use it if we want to prescribe KBr (to new cases).

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Colin Cameron — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:24:07 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] can someone please tell me why there should be any restriction whatsoever on me using Epilease if I want[/quote]

'Cos Genetricks and the VMD say so, thats why !!!!

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Colin Cameron — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:14:57 GMT

How about the next POM-VET "drug" from Genetrix being an adjunct to, or an aid in, treatment of Addisons Disease and which has also been in use for many years in inexpensive and widely available products. Last price I found was 16p for 500g. What is this amazing , marvellous compound? None other than crystalline sodium chloride.................................common salt. Now that would really upset the applecart ( and a few supermarkets!).

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Shona McLachlan — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:21:09 GMT

[quote user="Rob Watkins"]

Statement from Genitrix.

Genitrix provided a letter to all veterinary practices in an attempt to provide clarity regarding the regulations applicable to the supply of potassium bromide. The letter was not aggressive nor did it threaten in fact or by implication. However, certain veterinary practices had been misinformed.

[/quote]

It is not for the author of the letter to dictate whether the tone of the letter is aggressive or threatening - it is the recipient. I personally found the tone of the letter disgraceful. I am a professional and have no wish to have veiled threats about the VMD Boogey man posted through my door. I have 2 cases stable on .... wait for it...... NVS generic KBr and on that they will be staying until they prove to be clinically unstable. Even then I will switch to epilease when Vet plus gets its licence though which will no doubt be in the works. Why - on principle...... and the vet plus rep brings me cake not letters that insult my intelligence!

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Richard Carter — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:16:47 GMT

Thanks Bob - We've fired the Genitrix rep as well

Re: Genitrix - Libromide

Bob Russell — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:15:23 GMT

According to the poster from Genetrix KBr is and always has been a 'veterinary special' not a nutraceutical. I was under the impression it is a simple salt made up of potassium and bromide atoms. Not sure where a medicine starts or finishes but every vet knows it has theraputic activity and can be toxic but so can common table salt!!!

As a profession we are (hopefully) aware of its safety profile and efficacy. Recommended doses from decades of experience are in numerous texts. The legality has only been an issue since Genetrix made it so.

I hate to get boring about it but how does making a product POM justify immediate doubling of the price?