Castrating dogs early

Re: Castrating dogs early

HERETIC — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:19:50 GMT

I favour leaving male dogs until a year if possible for growth plate closure reasons but will do small breeds as young as 6 months if really pushed . The local rescue centre has started to push us to neuter earlier and yesterday I saw a 9 month bitch ,neutered at 6 months at their request ,with a tucked in juvenile vulva with hair rubbing the mucosa and a chronic bottom itch. This will now plague her lifelong. Imagine having thrush for ever(blokes may have trouble with this!)Should I give her oestrogens? Where is this leading?

Re: Castrating dogs early

Rob Loxley — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:33:46 GMT

[quote user="Emily Nightingale"]

My mothers dog (labrador) with hip dysplasia (now 14 months) was denied castration at 12 mths in order to let his "muscles develope so his hips became stronger" and was advised to castrate at 18months instead.

Any views??

[/quote]

Was he known to have hip dysplasia at a very young age? If so neutering wouldn't be my first surgery of consideration.
Data has been produced suggesting that very early neutering can increase risk of HD.

There have been a number of recent threads on early male neutering, highlighting influences on osteosarcoma, hip dysplasia, prostatic neoplasia - amongst others.

[quote user="Emily Nightingale"]I havent looked for any research papers on the subject[/quote]

Benefits/Risks of Early-age Gonadectomy in Cats and Dogs, JAVMA Vol 224, No. 3, Feb 1, 2004

Kustritz MVR: Determining the optimal age for gonadectomy of dogs and cats. JAVMA 231:1665-1675, 2007.

Teske, E; Naan, EC; Van Dijk, EM; Van Garderen, E; Schalken, JA (2002). "Canine prostate carcinoma: epidemiological evidence of an increased risk in castrated dogs". Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology 197 (1–2): 251.

Sorenmo, K. U.; Goldschmidt, M.; Shofer, F.; Goldkamp, C.; Ferracone, J. (2003). "Immunohistochemical characterization of canine prostatic carcinoma and correlation with castration status and castration time". Veterinary and Comparative Oncology 1 (1): 48

Re: Castrating dogs early

Emily Nightingale — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:47:56 GMT

Hi! This is a really interesting thread! In my practice we advice small dogs (<10kg approx) are castrated betw 9-12 months and >10kg are done at 12-18months. The larger the dog the later we castrate on the whole. This differs from my previous practice where we castrated at about 6m regardless.

I havent looked for any research papers on the subject, but I thought castration was a way of preventing/reducing benign prostatic hyperplasia?? and am embarrassed to say so but I also thought that testosterone helped promote muscle bulk and skeletal maturity.

I would love to see the research on this (there must be some just haven't looked but when I find it I will post it here) or hear other views. Surely there should be a fairly standard protocol for when to castrate (pretty much like bitch speys re mammary tumours) and a definitive list of the pro's and cons. I have seen two cases of entire males with inoperable perianal hernias caused by the colon forming a diverticulum to provide an exit route as the prostate was so large it was causing extraluminal obstruction. Both these cases were in the last 12 months.

Any views??

Re: Castrating dogs early

sophia guymer — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:22:37 GMT

[quote user="Rob Smith"]isn't picked up. [/quote]

Still, even if it was picked up, castration would be as good a treatment as it would have been a prevention so that in itself for me is not a reason to castrate young.

Mind, I do advice castration as a rule but that is because I have very little confidence in the average owner to be able to handle your typical intact male and the interdog aggression etc which often (I know, lots of them are fine!!) goes hand in hand. I see too many owners with dogs with what they think is a behavioural problem, where actually the dog is showing completely normal behaviour which is a problem to 'us' (its people), castration to me is often the first thing to advice (unless we are talking fear aggression, I would be a bit more carefull there with advicing castration)

But I am honest to people and still say there is no medical reason to do so, in my opinion.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Rob Smith — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:35:20 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Ridgwell"]

prostate disease. So much more rare though than mammary tumours and pyos in bitches don't you think?

[/quote]

Um actually no, BPH isn't uncommon. Stats show 80% of entire male dogs over 5 suffer some degree of BPH. It just isn't picked up.

Re: Castrating dogs early

sophia guymer — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 20:18:14 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]but I'm in the "whip 'em off" camp for my own dogs[/quote]

I didn't used to be, my first shepherd was one of our experimental dogs at uni, I was responsible for the 'emotional health' of all the dogs we had and of him in particular (each dog had their own student to walk and they all reported back to me), When I graduated I bought them a new dog and took mine home. He had amongst other things been used as a sperm donor! I was not planning on neutering him but when it got to the stage when you only had to stroke his back or he would 'start' (he actually ejaculated on the carpet once) I am affraid they were chopped off!!

After that I added a terrier to the family, who had a lot of aggression problems and neutering made him much easier to train.

I have to admit I am now in the 'whip 'em off' camp too! Looked after entire male for a friend for a while and found lots of brown spots on the floor when mopping, didn't take long to work out where they came from!! (and yes, after he was neutered the brown spots never returned! )

Still, I do always tell owners that it is their choice, there is in my opinion no medical reason to neuter, it can be used as treatment as much as prevention of all the conditions mentioned. Unlike in bitches with mam gland tumours.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Peter Ding — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:57:37 GMT

What about freeing both dogs and bitches from the "tyranny of excessive fertility" a la Roger Short

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/364/1532/2971.full

Just think of the tonnes of carbon dioxide saved!

Re: Castrating dogs early

Rob Davis — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:50:37 GMT

[quote user="Jessica Fawkes"]People will have differing views re this, as elective neutering is also considered unethical and akin to mutilation in a Scandinavian country (sorry can't recall which one), whilst the city of LA (US), has legislated that cats and dogs MUST be sterilised by 4 months of age, unless they fall into an exempt category.[/quote]

I think it is fascinating that such diverse stances are taken in different parts of the world. I thinks that it is very confusing for owners in the UK, because if you ask 10 different vets about whether or not to neuter your pet and at what age to do it, you will probably get 10 very different answers.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Rob Davis — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:46:56 GMT

I have 2 males, castrated both (and my previous, now deceased male) at 6 months old. With bitches I will always suggest spaying unless they are to be used for breeding for all the usual reasons mentioned above. For dogs I am very happy to discuss the pros and cons as I see them with owners and let them decide. There are plenty of lovely and healthy older entire males around, but I'm in the "whip 'em off" camp for my own dogs!

Re: Castrating dogs early

Rob Loxley — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:45:47 GMT

http://www.vetsurgeon.org/forums/p/4814/16295.aspx

Re: Castrating dogs early

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:23:50 GMT

I castrate 'em all - and I wouldn't want an entire male as a pet. (peeing everywhere and anywhere and oozing cheese - sorry, but urgh!) I'm amazed you all think that it is only females that are inconvenient....

Entire male dogs can breed daily - at least entire females can only breed twice a year! Why not do it for poulation control, if nothing else?

(And I know they should be under proper control.......but I've lost count of the number of entire males that come in as strays. Did they ALL have bad owners - or was testosterone playing it's part?)

Re: Castrating dogs early

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:28:33 GMT

I have 2 dogs and a bitch and the only reason the bitch was speyed was because I no longer wanted to breed from her, and it was more convenient to prevent mating, pyometra etc. this way.

I have a certain reluctance to castrate dogs unless there is a good reason, and I tend to quote reasons such as behavioural problems, inappropriate sexual behaviour, gonadal tumour, or treatment of prostatic and other testosterone responsive diseases. However where I think the owners are irresponsible, (or simply can't guarantee that their dog won't become the neighbourhood rapist!), or where an owner requests castration to prevent unwanted behaviour such as wandering, then I am content to undertake the procedure.

However with regards to early neutering I am not generally in favour as I find that they retain their puppy coat and behaviour, are slower to reach skeletal maturity and may according to some sources be more prone to OA later in life.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 00:06:55 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Ridgwell"]

Me. Unlike the situation with bitches I see no reason to castrate a dog unless it is an attempt to eliminate certain behavioural tendancies-although still very unlikely to make a lot of difference without training. Benefits aside, neutering often appears to exert a detrimental effect on the coat and in the hands of the majority of owners-significant weight gain. I have seen castration cure a case of anal furunculosis in my own GSD where other surgical and medical treatment failed. Also very good in cases of prostate disease. So much more rare though than mammary tumours and pyos in bitches don't you think?

[/quote]

If I had a male dog I wouldn't castrate it without a good reason. I spayed my bitch for convenience, nothing else. Couldn't be coping with a bitch in season. She is sleeping on my lap as I type!

Re: Castrating dogs early

Hannah Ridgwell — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:13:45 GMT

Re: Castrating dogs early

Jessica Fawkes — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:46:12 GMT

having spent the bulk of my vet career to date (15 yrs) in Australia, I was surprised to encounter many differing views on the "right" age to neuter in the UK.

It has also been interesting to look at this issue from a clients perspective, as many pet forums express conflicting ideas, with some frankly very confused owners who just want to do the right thing by their pet.

In Oz, the industry standard is to recommend 5-6 months (ie before sexual maturity) for males and females. This is also true for the US. In the UK there seems to be no consensus within the industry, with many vets advocating allowing (recommending) bitches to have a first season. There was an interesting article in the May Vet Record regarding this. I suspect that delaying the age at which we are advocating neutering is having a marked effect on numbers of animals sterilised overall. People will have differing views re this, as elective neutering is also considered unethical and akin to mutilation in a Scandinavian country (sorry can't recall which one), whilst the city of LA (US), has legislated that cats and dogs MUST be sterilised by 4 months of age, unless they fall into an exempt category. From my readings: bitches neutered vs entire have a greater incidence of urinary incontinence, this incidence is not increased by immature neutering.

Giant Breeds may get 'taller' due to delayed growth plate closure, but there appears to be no clinical issues of significance.

Extremely immature vulvas might benefit from sexual development, but the only consistent contraindication to immature speying in bitches is juvenile vaginitis (persistant) and pre-existing urethral incompetence.

It has been suggested that nervous dogs might benefit from the testosterone effect, ie behavioural issues may be worsened by neutering. However how many more dogs behaviour would be positively affected?

Re neoplastic disease, early neutering overall has a benefit for females, with mamm tumors decreasing. As having gonads seems to have a tumor prevention effect re osteosarcs and haemangiosarcs, it is possible that male dogs left entire, are in fact a healthier group that neutered males. But how many of us would advocate an entire male dog as a pet of choice?

Just to be provocative.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Laurence Webb — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:23:01 GMT

Early castration delays growth plate closure. Theretically that could increase the risk of epiphyseal fractures but I don't think that this is a significant problem in reality. I tell owners that their dog will grow to pretty much the same size but it may take a bit longer.

I suspect that early castation in large breeds may result in them remaining more puppyish in their behaviour compared to those that are castrated as adults but I don't know if this is really true or not as they're mainly animals like brown labradors, who never grow up anyway.

Re: Castrating dogs early

Clive Ansell — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:18:30 GMT

most practices seem to advise 6 months onwards, although I did recently do a charity clinic locum where they routinely castrate dogs from 3 months of age. No problems to my knowledge, and they don't seem to have loads of aged adolescent dogs on their books!