Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 20 May 2010 18:46:10 GMT

[quote user="Gareth Dowdeswell"]But it'll save you time dealing with the VDS case when the bitch aborts even though it was nothing to do with the ear drops... [/quote]

Nah - the case still happens, you just have a better defence.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Gareth Dowdeswell — Thu, 20 May 2010 18:02:04 GMT

Thanks for all the advice, think I'll try some antibiotic only ear drops intially, if it doesn't resolve will offer the owner Easotic. And obviously lots and lots of informed consent forms!

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

With all these warnings and consent forms I'm going to need longer than 10 minutes for a simple case of otitis.

[/quote]

But it'll save you time dealing with the VDS case when the bitch aborts even though it was nothing to do with the ear drops...

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 19 May 2010 23:10:00 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]I wish someone would make an ear drop without steroid in it [/quote]

I think the steroid is what gives you the greatest perceived improvement in condition, if there wasn't one the dogs would get better slower IMO. I sometimes give dogs with bad ears one shot of Voren for relief.

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"] I've had the same discussion in the past with diabetic animals.[/quote]

What did they say? Woof?

There's 2.5mg of pred per ml of Canaural, a 7.5ml bottle should do a 7-10 day course in both ears, so basically 1.25mg twice daily. Anyone know how much is absorbed through the ears? The dogs are only getting a tiny dose. I have used them in pregnant and diabetic animals with no problems. Did warn the owner of the pregnant dog (but not the diabetic).

With all these warnings and consent forms I'm going to need longer than 10 minutes for a simple case of otitis.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 19 May 2010 19:44:33 GMT

How about making up your own ear drops? I've done that in the past using baytril injection to give ab's directly into canal when a ruptured ear drum is present I've also used one of those ab's (I forget which) that is needed for resistant pseudomonas. It would still be off license but it may be possible to make something up without steroid which may be safer than using a proprietary product. I wish someone would make an ear drop without steroid in it I've had the same discussion in the past with diabetic animals.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Jill Nute — Wed, 19 May 2010 09:33:53 GMT

Approach VERY carefully, owners who see data sheets AFTER things have gone wrong for whatever reason will pounce on phrases which they interpret as meaning Not Safe in Pregnany, rather than, Not tested, as we understand it. Make sure you explain options, document them, & get a signature from them.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Clive Ansell — Wed, 19 May 2010 08:40:02 GMT

The same mg/kg dose and its affects cannot be assumed across species.

Xylazine for example; dose in a 4.0kg cat is 3.0 mg/kg, but only 0.05 - 0.3 mg/kg in a 500Kg cow. Cattle need up to 60 times less weight for weight.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 May 2010 08:14:01 GMT

Maybe it is relative - cows weigh half a tonne!!! You really would have to infuse a massive amount to get the same equivalent dose as a squirt in a 7kg bichon's ear!!!

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 18 May 2010 22:05:43 GMT

Yet we infuse quite large amounts of corticosteroids into pregnant cows udders with no apparent problems.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Clive Ansell — Tue, 18 May 2010 21:01:39 GMT

Tread with caution. I guess that any medicinal product carries some element of risk albeit very low. If the bitch lost the puppies or any were malformed, it would leave the way open for blame regardless of whether the drug was the cause.

I have used Canaural and Surolan sparingly in pregnant bitches before with no problems, on the basis that I cannot guarantee safety during pregnancy.

Advise of the options, the risks, and if they are breeders get them to sign a disclaimer.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Rob Smith — Tue, 18 May 2010 20:51:56 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

Yeah, but what about easoticicis?

Niall

[/quote]

huh?

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

katja wagner — Tue, 18 May 2010 20:49:26 GMT

i remember one case of a colleague who prescr. metacam for a pregnant bitch due severe neck pain , the bitch had a litter of 2 healthy pups and one deformed ,still born. of course this could simple be coincidence .

katja

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Niall Taylor — Tue, 18 May 2010 20:21:15 GMT

Yeah, but what about easoticicis?

Niall

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Rob Smith — Tue, 18 May 2010 20:01:54 GMT

Just found following statement on easotic on data sheet online:

The safety of the veterinary medicinal product has not been established during pregnancy and lactation. Systemic absorption of hydrocortisone aceponate, gentamicin sulfate and miconazole nitrate being negligible, it is unlikely for any teratogenic, foetotoxic or maternotoxic effects to occur at the recommended dosage in dogs.

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Niall Taylor — Tue, 18 May 2010 19:58:11 GMT

I'm sure there was a case a few years ago (might have read it in a VDS newsletter) where a VS got into hot water for prescribing steroid containing ear drops to a springer spaniel bich who was pregnant, as was her owner, without explaining the risks to either.

You're firmly in arse covering territory - if anything goes wrong pregnancy wise and you've prescribed a drug which hasn't got a data-sheet say so then you're going to be up the proverbial narrow waterway without the proverbial implement.

You could try phoning the tech departments of the manufacturers and see if you can get a firmer statement about safety or the lack of it during pregnancy.

Niall

Re: Otitis Externa in Pregnant Bitches

Rob Smith — Tue, 18 May 2010 19:27:55 GMT

The steroid in easoticicis HCA which doesn't go systemic, so maybe that would be ideal? Haven't checked the data sheet though...