X-rays of pregnant bitches

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Vikki Moran — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:42:47 GMT

i've never xrayed a pregnant bitch without a critical clinical reason.

I don't have a great scanner, but i prefer to try to get a rough idea using ultrasound, but always make sure i tell owners, that it's difficult to be certain.

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:28:15 GMT

I'd be interested to know who the law ( and VDS) would think was responsible if she jumped off/fell off the table and hurt herself and /or the pups......... I'd be making sure the owner was giving full and informed consent for her dog to be left on a table unrestrained..

I'd also be concened about carrying out any procedure which is being done purely for convenience reasons, with no benefit to the bitch. Is it even an act of veterinary surgery at all? Are we allowed, under the ionising radiation regs to do so?

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Jillian Hall — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:37:17 GMT

I have 1 client who is small-scale beeder and always wants her bitches Xrayed in the last week to check numbers. As it's always been done I've not felt in a position to refuse - and at that late stage I imagine the radiation risks are probably negligable. I would never hold or sedate for such Xrays. Fortunately they are well behaved dogs and a few sand-bags suffice. I prefer ultrasound for PD but as this client insists on knowing numbers (so she can go to bed as soon as the last pup is out) I would rather tell her numbers by Xray than ultrasound.

The only circumstance where I will hold for Xrays would be the occasional dyspnoeic animal where it's in a critical condition. (I have older colleagues who are much quicker to don the lead gown)

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Mary Thomson — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:03:23 GMT

No, I have never taken radiographs to confirm pregnancy or count pups either. I've always had access to ultrasound, and like most others I don't do counting puppies!

I think I may have x-rayed once or twice to check whether there were any remaining pups at the end of whelping, but normally would prefer to use ultrasound for this if possible.

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Utlendigur — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:11:01 GMT

No. Like previous posts I'd only tend to do it to confirm (or otherwise) the end of whelping. We've only recently got a scanner and we do use that for PDs but don't give a count of pups (as per VDS advice) but even before getting that we would never routinely have considered radiography to diagnose pregnancy - other than possibly if the history was uncertain, palpation wasn't conclusive and we were worried about a pyo or abdo mass like the 13yr old collie that "hadn't had a season for years" presenting with abdo distension whose owner assumed she would have gone through the "menopause" ....

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

jd2008 — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:49:41 GMT

Nope, have never in 16 years radiographed to confirm pregnancy/count foetal numbers. Will always echo but never give actual numbers. If I suspect a remaining pup(s) in a whelping bitch, I'd rather scan too - allows me to check foetal heartbeats

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Alex Gough — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:24:21 GMT

I was a bit surprised too, reading it on this other group, hence why I wondered if it was common practice.

alex

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Niall Taylor — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:45:13 GMT

[quote user="alex gough"]On another forum I am on, we have been discussing radiography of pregnant bitches to get an accurate foetal count, and I was wondering whether this is common practice?[/quote]

I'm an old fashioned kinda guy and far from expert at ultrasonography but I have never routinely radiographed pregnant bitches just to get a foetal count (and I must say I was astonished when I read the post on the other group - thought I'd misread it to start with). I'm most concerned about the risks of sedation (or vigorous manual restraint) and damage from ionising radiation. Even if one was confident about the risks 'on paper' I'm sure a litiginous client could make life v. uncomfortable if anything went wrong.

We do conscious ultrasound exams at 4 weeks with a FOC scan to confirm a week later if needed. And we never guarantee foetal numbers!

Niall

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:54:41 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I'll hold for rads (if necessary ) but won't allow my nurses to [/quote]

me too. I do it very rarely - I can only remember once in the last 6 months.

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:40:50 GMT

I will only radiograph if uncertain at the time of parturition whether or not ther's someone left in !!!!!!!!!

I'll hold for rads (if necessary ) but won't allow my nurses to

Wynne

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Clive Ansell — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:45:20 GMT

I have never taken radiographs solely to count puppies or kittens other than at parturition to determine if any are remaining, although I have found animals to be pregnant when taking rads for other reasons. I don't hold animals for conscious radiography, and would not be happy sedating a dog or cat just to count foetuses

I use ultrasound scanning, but never give a precise number of foetuses in line with VDS advise.

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:30:43 GMT

Never. We don't do concious xrays unless there is a strong clinical indication -which IMHO knowing numbers of pups aint!

If we need to confirm there is more than one pup then I'll scan.

Re: X-rays of pregnant bitches

Rob Reid — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:16:01 GMT

I don't tend to do this, though I can see why some breeders may be interested. I will tend to scan at 4 weeks post-mating - I am confident enough with the scanner that I can give the owner a rough indication but always advise that if I think there is more than 4, there could be lots!!

The reasons I don't x-ray are firstly cost (most breeders generally want to pay as little as possible - in a lot of cases just getting them scanned is a chore) and secondly practicality (ie having to do the xray concious and not stressing the bitch out.)

From a clinical point of view I can see the benefit in terms of predicting dystocia (have you got a big single pup) but then if you are looking for this why not just scan in the late stages of pregnancy? The only pregnant cases I will tend to xray are the ones where they are in labour and I am unsure if there are any pups left in.