Giardia

Re: Giardia

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:49:54 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Marshall"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I'm not at all sure that Trigene would be effective against giardial oocysts. If I'm wrong no doubt someone will be along to correct me.

[/quote]

They are using the bleach to get the giardia and they have been using trigene around to try and keep down the campylobacter! I got them using trigene a few years ago when we had problems and post mortem results showed several different potential pathogens so I felt improved hygiene was likely to be the most effective thing to do as the disinfectant they were using then was dubious. It did seem to work for a couple of years it is just the last 6 - 12 mths that we have started to get more problems again. The owners have been using the bleach off their own bat as they had read it was effective against Giardia. I admit bleach then trigene might be overkill for bacterial contamination!

[/quote]

Ah well that seems about right. I'm guessing, but just possibly they are, unknowingly, not being as thorough with the Trigene as they used.

Bleach is a very good disinfectant indeed in terms of efficacy, spectrum, penetration, speed of action and tolerance of varying dilutions. The obvious disadvantage that outweighs the advantages is of course its corrosive nature. Also, which may be significant, it loses efficacy quite quickly once diluted for use, so for instance it is superb for floors when freshly made up, but it's no use keeping the mopbucket full for later.

Re: Giardia

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:40:42 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I'm not at all sure that Trigene would be effective against giardial oocysts. If I'm wrong no doubt someone will be along to correct me.

[/quote]

Re: Giardia

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:07:21 GMT

I'm not at all sure that Trigene would be effective against giardial oocysts. If I'm wrong no doubt someone will be along to correct me.

Re: Giardia

Hanna Bennett — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:40:34 GMT

interestingly i had a household of cats with giardia and by mistake Idexx did the ELISA instead of microscopy on my faceal sample, which came back negative, and when i called to find out if this was true it turns out false negatives are possible too, so frustrating disease to clear. Would also vote for the metronidazole, as these cats had two courses of panacur and still giardia positive on microscopy (and diarrhoea). HAving said that they also turned out to have tritrich on pcr so unlucky little sods....

Re: Giardia

Graham Bilbrough — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:03:28 GMT

Hi, Charlotte

I am not fully familiar with what is done at the IDEXX Wetherby lab and so can only talk in general terms--you may want to call one of the clinical pathologists or internal medics. In general terms, I would expect their ELISA to have a similar sensitivity to the SNAP test ie. to remain positive even if you have reduced the giardia burden by >95%.

The BSAVA Manual of C&F Infectious disease (p149) says that fenbendazole is 100% effective. However, it has been my experience that all dogs respond to the treatment (normal faeces; pups thrive) and you can no longer find cysts using a zinc sulphate floatation. However, the SNAP (or lab test) remains positive. If you look again (looking better this time) you can find cysts. Therefore, I personally do not recommend retesting at all.

As you are doing already, I treat all in-contacts (e.g. Panacur 50mg/kg SID for 3 days). I am not a fan of metronidazole in this situation. Many cases respond, but I am even less convinced this is clearance. Metronidazole does firm the stool helping to reduce environmental contamination, but I have seen neurological signs with many dogs--perhaps I am using too high doses!

We shouldn't forget that most giardia cases are subclinical and only cause problems when other pathogens are present in the gut e.g. the campylobacteriosis you mentioned. I suspect this might be the real cause of the problem. I believe that ALL dogs are susceptible to infection with giardia, but few show persistent signs unless there is co-infection.

Decontamination of a straw environment is unrealistic. I have only had success when I have removed all organic material and used 1:10 bleach with one minute contact time. To achieve this the environment becomes so unpleasant (concrete and steel everywhere) that the kennel hands (and the public coming to view the pups) find it unacceptable.

Charlotte, I know you will be reading this wondering when is he going to say something useful. I'm sorry, but "good luck" is probably as good as it gets.

All the best

Graham

Re: Giardia

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:57:09 GMT

Sorry I should have made it clear. We have not been using the snap test we have been sending the samples to your lab. Is there an optimum time period for retesting to confirm elimination of the parasite? Is any immunity developed or is reinfection likely?

They are treating for giardia routinely even if there are no clinical signs because they are aware that it is aroud.

Environmental contamination is something we are trying to control. Currently the kennels get washed down then bleached and then trigened between litters but unfortunately they are weaning the pups in pens with straw and they get mucked out daily rather than a full clean daily. I am sure this is part of the problem although things did improve when I swopped them onto trigene. This place also has a problem with campylobacter and it can be unclear which is causing the real illness.

I have to admit I have been considering swopping to using metronidazole but did not want to do that unless necessary.

Charlotte

Re: Giardia

David Hopper — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:40:29 GMT

I have never had much faith in Panacur as a cure for Giardia. I prefer 10 days of metronidazole, rest 10 days then repeat. I had a similar large kennel situation and Panacur did not appear to control the giardia whereas metronidazole stopped it in its tracks. Its easy to administer and cheap as well.

Re: Giardia

Graham Bilbrough — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:01:22 GMT

Hi, Charlotte

Have you been using the IDEXX SNAP giardia? I assume so and my comments are limited to this test.

I think it is very unlikely that you have a false positive, however, you should be aware that even with successful treatment it can take weeks before the antigen is no longer found in the faeces. We commonly see the diarrhoea improve with treatment and the shedding is dramatically reduced, but, as the test is very sensitive, you will continue to get positives.

Generally speaking, patients who have been successfully treated--resolution of clinical signs--do not need follow-up monitoring tests.

What are you doing to reduce environmental contamination? If you are outside the UK, there may be a vaccine to consider.

All best wishes

Graham