Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Vikki Moran — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:40:41 GMT

"Veterinary surgeons, both in perception and potentially in reality, face two conflicts of interest. a) The conflict between the income they derive from correcting faults and their duty to advise against breeding practices that cause such faults to proliferate. b) The conflict between what they should advise their client to do and what their client wants to do."

whilst I am aware that matthew thinks most of us fall into the former category, I find the latter the bigger issue.

It is difficult to do what you feel is right, when your client disagrees.

I am not a partner, I have no vested interest in the financial situation of the practices I work in. I also am lucky enough to be in a financial situation personally which means i do this job purely because I like it. I don't have to! I actually enjoy this job, and i hope i do my best to make sure i alleviate suffering of animals, i try to educate their owners to make the best of their welfare, and I try to make sure that my patients have good quality of life.

when it comes to pedigree dogs, i think the biggest problem is public perception. the public do not understand readily the problems some of these pedigree dogs can suffer.

how many of us have heard "but he's not in any pain" when examining a dog with a chronic skin condition, or ulcerated eye for example? of course the animal is in pain or suffering when there is any medical or physical disease process present.

people seem to believe that because they are sending a lot of money on designer dogs that these dogs won't have problems, or that if they do, they're known about and are acceptible.

we need to work to educate these owners before the buy puppies if we can. but that in reality is probably not practical. but when they buy these puppies we should be heloing them make decisions regarding breeding from them and future purchases after the current puppy has lived out it's life.

interestingly I wonder what the anti-neutering brigade think about this? what I think is that we should be helping owners with pedigree dogs showing extremes of phenotype to decide NOT to breed from them - i.e. to neuter.

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Clive Ansell — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:22:56 GMT

[quote user="sophia guymer"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"] had an example last night while on call. A staffie needing a c-section, clients have no money.[/quote]

Yes, we would do the same in that situation and be firm and fine with it, but it is a little bit different when you have a English bull dog breeder in for a csection, as pretty much expected from the moment it was mated, and then say, we will only do it if we can spay her as well!! Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to say that, but would need to have some sort of law behind me to back me up. At the moment there is no way we can do it.

[/quote]

We already can. There is no legal requirement or law that states we have to carry out a c-section, or any other procedure for that matter. We have a professional and moral obligation to relieve suffering which can be emergency treatment or PTS, so if we gave the options to your Bulldog breeder of 1) c-section with spey or 2) PTS then we have satisfied that obligation. If the breeder wishes to try elsewhere they are free to do so.

To be effective though, the profession would have to stand full square together on the issue, it would be no use refusing the c-section if the neighbouring practice carries it out without question.

We are the profession and the trained professionals, and we should be leading the way with this instead of being subservient to the breeding fraternity.

Public awareness is the other way forward too. I advise clients against buying puppies of breeds that have endless problems, and without a profitable demand breeders would cease to produce them.

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

sophia guymer — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:06:25 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"] had an example last night while on call. A staffie needing a c-section, clients have no money.[/quote]

Yes, we would do the same in that situation and be firm and fine with it, but it is a little bit different when you have a english bull dog breeder in for a csection, as pretty much expected from the moment it was mated, and then say, we will only do it if we can spay her as well!! Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to say that, but would need to have some sort of law behind me to back me up. At the moment there is no way we can do it.

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Clive Ansell — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:00:18 GMT

But what we can do is where a c-section or surgical corrrection of a genetic defect is carried out, insist on spaying at the same time. It could be made a condition of carrying out the procedure, and if someone doesn't agree they go elsewhere or put the dog to sleep.

I had an example last night while on call. A staffie needing a c-section, clients have no money. The practice agreed to the procedure as long as half the money was paid up front and a monthly credit plan was agreed for the remainder, on condition the bitch was spayed at the same time. No agreement = no procedure.

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

sophia guymer — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:49:44 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

But as we cannot spay a bitch without the owner's permission, or refuse to carry out a caesarian for obvious reasons, exactly what control have we ever had over this????

[/quote]

You beat me to it Gillian, just what I was going to say! Do they expect us to put the bitch to sleep or risk a court case for spaying the money making machine?

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:51:50 GMT

[quote user="Matthew Watkinson"]"It is only the ready availability of modern veterinary medicine that has permitted some conditions – such as the inability to give birth without surgical intervention – to become widespread."[/quote]

But as we cannot spay a bitch without the owner's permission, or refuse to carry out a caesarian for obvious reasons, exactly what control have we ever had over this????

Re: Bateson report on Pedigree Dog breeding

Matthew Watkinson — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:02:08 GMT

Did you notice the following subtle reprimand:

"The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons and the BVA, working with the profession as a whole, should lead a shift in emphasis to preventative veterinary medicine rather than simply the correction of problems after they have occurred."

or the following conclusions:

"In some instances, continued selection for certain characteristics can only continue because they are supported by veterinary medicine, which means that the faults can be corrected or compensated by surgery which in itself can cause a welfare problem and even require more than one operation."

"It is only the ready availability of modern veterinary medicine that has permitted some conditions – such as the inability to give birth without surgical intervention – to become widespread."

This report calls for a change in the veterinary profession as well as the pedigree dog breeding world, but will vets even notice, or will they conveniently ignore it?

Kind regards,

Matthew