Guinea pig castrations

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 24 May 2016 09:40:58 GMT

[quote user="Helen Redfern"]

was there an answer regarding inguinal ring closure for abdominal approach?....

thanks

[/quote]

Sorry for missing this. No, I don't close the inguinal ring with this approach- when you exteriorise the testicles the tunic gets inverted so there isn't then the pouch left for herniation.

Marie

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Helen Redfern — Tue, 24 May 2016 07:22:37 GMT

was there an answer regarding inguinal ring closure for abdominal approach?....

thanks

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Glenn Hodgson — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:29:21 GMT

Tried abdominal approach yesterday. Very impressed and won't be going back to scrotal. I found it both better and faster.

Not too concerned re the herniation risk personally.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Edward Jones — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:09:48 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

Honestly the abdominal approach really isn't that scary -you are caudal enough you avoid the voluminous intestine and bladder is midline and not in the way.

...

Marie

[/quote]

Hi, my question about this approach got lost at the bottom of page 3 - do you need to close the inguinal ring when doing an abdominal approach?

I'm guessing that it would difficult to do and that you don't need to close it, but I don't understand why the same risk of herniation into the tunic wouldn't still be present.

Thanks!

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 21:07:22 GMT

I hate the majority of little fury things, but have a soft spot for guinea pigs.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

grumpyoldman — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 21:06:05 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]Talking to other exotics vets this is not just a local problem, they also see these! [/quote]

My wife had one 2 weeks ago with a catgut ligature half way across a testicle , and herniated abdominal contents in a fistula, she did her best, tried to sort it under the operating microscope , pretty hopeless , it was from an Exotics practice . We do them closed with biosyn 4-0 , no problems , several weekly . But i will try the other method if its easier. Not sure I want to attract the GP fraternity to our door though , I can't take to people who bond with something else's lunch.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:05:03 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I've never had a complication with scrotal castration so it seems unnecessary to me. Maybe its just the surgeon! It surprises me that you don't see just as many if not more complications with abdominal surgery: peritonitis, accidentally incising intestine, herniation etc. Given I can castrate a gn. pig in 5 minutes scrotally with no issues so I can't see any need to complicate matters.[/quote]

Honestly the abdominal approach really isn't that scary -you are caudal enough you avoid the voluminous intestine and bladder is midline and not in the way. Doesn't take any longer either. Even the vet students and new grads we teach to do the abdominal technique have yet to have any problems and if technique was going to be a problem then we'd expect to see some complications.

We typically see one case every 4-6 weeks (not from our vets as they do abdominal approach, from other practices but not a trend for one place/vet being a source) where they have chronic fistulas or swollen, painful, infected scrotum post castrate that needs debriding, herniation of viscera is less common but still occurs occasionally. Talking to other exotics vets this is not just a local problem, they also see these! Owners often choose to go to a more specialised practice with these complications as they have lost faith in the first opinion vet when something they consider as simple has gone wrong (or they are advised by their [usually exceptionally melodramatic] guinea pig friends that scrotal castrates aren't the done thing...) so you may be not see some of them back. There may be other factors (environmental hygiene, humidity, individual mobility, immunocompetence) that mean one guinea pig that drags its scrotal incisions along the grubby ground constantly is fine but another gets a nasty infection. Suture material is also important - catgut is much more commonly associated with problems than more modern alternatives. Or you may just be lucky! Personally for the sake of 30seconds longer to close a wound I'm much happier doing the abdominal technique. It is nothing to do with not being competent at the scrotal technique -I do plenty of scrotal castrates in rabbits and find it quick and simple (I also like glue for skin closure for these) but rabbit anatomy is different so they aren't dragging wounds through their own poo post-op so there just aren't the same issues.

Marie

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:38:40 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"] I've castrated many G Pigs via scrotal incisions over 20 years and can't remember a single one going wrong, no deaths I'm aware of or herniation of viscera. No antibiotics given either.[/quote]At least someone agrees with me. I do ligate the tunica but glue the skin. I wonder if this makes a difference.

[/quote]

I agree with you as well, not re the more complicated procedure of abdominal castration (it's actually quite easy and a good way to do very early castrations) but I don't get complications with scrotal castrations either, I think there have been two or three in the last 25 years and I do quite a few of them. I ligate the tunica and put one stitch in the skin, so this cannot be the reason either. My colleague leaves the skin open with equally good results.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:05:10 GMT

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Edward Jones — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:48:03 GMT

Is there any closure of the inguinal ring required with an abdominal approach?

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Clive Ansell — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:52:30 GMT

Interesting. I've castrated many G Pigs via scrotal incisions over 20 years and can't remember a single one going wrong, no deaths I'm aware of or herniation of viscera. No antibiotics given either.

I'm keen to try the abdominal approach, but cannot see that a scrotal castration is less safe, unsafe or unacceptable.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:49:35 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

Because even if it is easy for the original surgery I don't want to have to deal with repeat surgeries resecting abscesses, sorting out the secondary herniations of GIT or bladder, or marsupialising necrotic infected messes. But I'm fussy like that!

We regularly end up taking on guinea pigs castrated scrotally by others and clearing up the complications and it's sad because it is avoidable

[/quote]I've never had a complication with scrotal castration so it seems unnecessary to me. Maybe its just the surgeon! It surprises me that you don't see just as many if not more complications with abdominal surgery: peritonitis, accidentally incising intestine, herniation etc. Given I can castrate a gn. pig in 5 minutes scrotally with no issues so I can't see any need to complicate matters.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:38:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I am a at a loss to understand why anyone would advocate the increased risk of a laparotomy to castrate a Gn. pig when it is p*ss easy to do a scrotal approach. I've never had an issue milking the testes down.

[/quote]

We regularly end up taking on guinea pigs castrated scrotally by others and clearing up the complications and it's sad because it is avoidable. The last one came in with abscessation and associated breakdown of the abdominal wall with herniation of colon into the scrotum. It died a few days later because although the colon had been freed up initially, adhesions developed and GI obstruction resulted. Not a good outcome for what should be a routine procedure where a safer technique is available.

Marie

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 16:59:23 GMT

Is that not like asking why don't we castrate cats in a welly boot and save the increased risk of a general anaesthetic?!

Because there is a better way. Honestly it is so quick - even my first one.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 16:09:30 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]I have seen a couple of abscesses after scrotal castration in guinea pigs. I agree that fixing the technique rather than adding antibiotics seems highly sensible.[/quote]

The thing is, would the abscess have been prevented by giving the cavy a dollop of Baytril?

I couldn't say, but I rather doubt it.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

joanne mcallister — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:58:46 GMT

Not an increased risk in my experience and no post-op abscess/complications

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:32:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Genuinely curious why I have 'rated' badly on this statement.....I simply stated what we do![/quote]Probably a dinovet following the thread.

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]Thanks for that - what an amazing technique, sounds like a good alternative to wrestling the testicles back into the scrotum. I might give it a go.[/quote]I am a at a loss to understand why anyone would advocate the increased risk of a laparotomy to castrate a Gn. pig when it is p*ss easy to do a scrotal approach. I've never had an issue milking the testes down.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:48:49 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]an I ask you all to state how many guinea pig castrations you have done in this way?[/quote]

I probably personally do one a month. All done via scrotal incisions and never had an infection (I'd be honest if I had! Had a couple in rabbits- but do a lot lot more of them). I do them closed, just crush, ligate with vicryl and close skin with a dab of glue.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:35:52 GMT

[quote user="Ashlea"]

[quote user="Seadna "]

For the people who kindly answered my question with the "no prophylactic antibiotics in any routine neutering, ever" statements, can I ask you all to state how many guinea pig castrations you have done in this way? (I see Michael already has, hope I didn't miss anyone else)

Just interested. Guinea Pig surgeries seem to me to be a bit like cow caesarians. You can be as sterile as you want, but you are still sending the animal into a recovery room full of poop...

[/quote]I do a reasonable amount of guinea pig castrations and never use peri-operative antibiotics. I make my incisions quite cranially so they're not on the hanging part of the scrotum with the idea that they're not so much in contact with the ground or bedding. We only rarely see post-operative complications and usually they heal very well.

[/quote]

Same here. I haven't counted them, but we do them on a regular basis. Complications are very rare.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Rob Loxley — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:35:22 GMT

I have seen a couple of abscesses after scrotal castration in guinea pigs. I agree that fixing the technique rather than adding antibiotics seems highly sensible.

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Ashlea — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:21:12 GMT

[quote user="Seadna "]

Just interested. Guinea Pig surgeries seem to me to be a bit like cow caesarians. You can be as sterile as you want, but you are still sending the animal into a recovery room full of poop...

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Seadna — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:08:21 GMT

Just interested. Guinea Pig surgeries seem to me to be a bit like cow caesarians. You can be as sterile as you want, but you are still sending the animal into a recovery room full of poop...

RE: Guinea pig castrations

Niall Taylor — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:45:08 GMT

[quote user="joanne mcallister"]Just found the post title - it's Gpig abscess after castration[/quote]

Thanks for that - what an amazing technique, sounds like a good alternative to wrestling the testicles back into the scrotum. I might give it a go.

The relevant post is here:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/uk/exotics/f/88/p/19677/118276.aspx#118276

Cheers,

Niall

RE: Guinea pig castrations

joanne mcallister — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:29:14 GMT

Just found the post title - it's Gpig abscess after castration

RE: Guinea pig castrations

joanne mcallister — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:26:28 GMT

Marriette described the method in another post a couple of months ago - sorry can't remember the title. It is very easy and takes away the worry of complications from contamination of scrotal incisions