VICE

RE: VICE

Cinzia Gandini — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 21:17:41 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice"]all sorts of new things [/quote]

While reading in the forum about a 'dog potentially being bitten by a bat', I thought it would be useful if VICE could also include quick reference tools like Health Risk Snapshot Tables or Quick Disease Facts. These would help to stay updated with a simple overview of health risks, including disease transmission, symptoms, and prevention, all in an easy-to-read format. A chart or table for quick access during emergencies or just as a knowledge base refresher. This is something that could be done in seconds using AI, like the following created in seconds with AI

Aspect	Rabies	Lyssavirus (European Bat Lyssavirus - EBLV)
Virus Type	Rabies virus (Rabies lyssavirus)	European Bat Lyssavirus (EBLV-1 and EBLV-2)
Transmission (UK)	Bites or scratches from infected mammals. Typically transmitted by dogs or other mammals, but humans can also be infected by bats or wild animals.	Bats to humans (bite, scratch, or saliva exposure). Rare cases from bats to humans.
Affected Species (in the UK)	All mammals, including dogs, cats, and wildlife (e.g., foxes, raccoons, etc.).	Primarily bats (specifically Daubenton’s bats and other European species). Very rarely humans or other mammals.
Can Dogs & Cats be Affected?	Yes, dogs and cats can be infected if they are bitten by an infected animal, but this is extremely rarein the UK due to rabies control measures.	No, dogs and cats do not typically get infected with European Bat Lyssavirus (EBLV). The virus primarily affects bats.
Can Dogs & Cats Transmit to Humans?	Yes, if they are infected with rabies and bite or scratch a human. This is the primary route of transmission in many countries, especially where rabies is common.	No, dogs and cats cannot transmit EBLV to humans. The virus is not present in these animals.
Human Transmission	Yes, through bites or scratches from infected animals, especially dogs or wildlife (foxes, raccoons, etc.). Transmission is through saliva.	Yes, bat-to-human transmission can occur through bites or scratches from infected bats. Rarely, humans are infected in the UK, with a handful of documented cases.
Reported Human Cases in the UK (last 5 years)	None, no human rabies cases in the UK due to the strict rabies control measures, including vaccination of pets and quarantine regulations.	One documented case (2018) in the UK, where an individual contracted EBLV-2 after handling a bat. No further confirmed cases in the last 5 years.
Cases in Animals in the UK (last 5 years)	None, no confirmed rabies cases in animals in the UK in recent years due to strict control measures (vaccination of pets, quarantine laws).	None, no confirmed EBLV cases in animals in the UK, though the virus has been detected in some bat populations.
Control Measures in the UK	Strict animal control: pets (especially dogs and cats) must be vaccinated; imported animals must be quarantined; bats are monitored for rabies.	Bat monitoring: bats are regularly tested for EBLVin the UK, but the risk remains extremely low. Bats are protected by law.
Geographic Risk in the UK	Very low. Rabies was eliminated in the UK in the 20th century through vaccination and quarantine programs. No significant risk in recent decades.	Very low. The risk of EBLV is extremely rare in humans, with only a few cases ever recorded, primarily from bat handling.
Potential for Outbreaks in the UK	None, the UK is rabies-free due to strict regulations.	Extremely low, as EBLV is primarily found in bats, and human infections are rare.

RE: VICE

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 17:31:04 GMT

[quote userid="2161" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice/248552#248552"]Great, in fact, NICE idea, but NICE is about CLINICAL EXCELLENCE, not just cost-effectiveness. It provides evidence-based guidance and standards to improve health care, by focusing clinical excellence AND cost-effectiveness to improve patient outcomes.[/quote]

Rachel Perry - thank you! Yes, my thinking was to limit the scope of this to cost-effectiveness ... so it would assess that as one measure which clinicians can use alongside their own measures of excellence.

Perhaps excellence might be something to add in the future, but I would imagine it is a far harder thing to quantify or measure in the field of veterinary medicine, not least because of the lack of good data.

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice/248558#248558"]Bit like the biscuit. [/quote]

RE: VICE

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 00:33:45 GMT

[quote userid="2161" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice/248552#248552"]NICE is about CLINICAL EXCELLENCE,[/quote]

In theory, yes, in practice, no. Nice lets kids die from cancer because effective drugs are too expensive, it's really not nice. Bit like the biscuit.

RE: VICE

Rachel Perry — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 10:34:18 GMT

Great, in fact, NICE idea, but NICE is about CLINICAL EXCELLENCE, not just cost-effectiveness. It provides evidence-based guidance and standards to improve health care, by focusing clinical excellence AND cost-effectiveness to improve patient outcomes.

RE: VICE

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 19 Mar 2026 17:49:25 GMT

OK - well I am working things up here for what I think could be a fascinating series of discussions.

I'm actually going to call this:

VICE – Veterinary Index of Cost-effectiveness

(because even for me, Institute would be over-egging it a bit!)

First stage is to agree the framework for how the index is defined, which I am working on.

RE: VICE

janine redman — Thu, 19 Mar 2026 08:29:12 GMT

We get reasonable results using the small X-ray plates and conventional x-rays , it’s more fiddly and time consuming but diagnostic

RE: VICE

Alasdair Hotston Moore — Thu, 19 Mar 2026 08:08:41 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice/248535#248535"]. Quite a lot of dental radiography can be done, with ingenuity, with the standard practice radiography set.[/quote]

That’s an excellent area for discussion. A good starting point

RE: VICE

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 18 Mar 2026 14:48:42 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice"]I am thinking it could run as follows: Topic opens with a summary of available evidence today. Follow by discussion introducing any other evidence. Challenging existing evidence. Getting some data on cost. Then finally concluding with some kind of rating, based on the cost/benefit analysis. Or perhaps better than a star rating system, a standardised cost per annum figure. I'm thinking: cost of procedure amortised over extended lifespan (or cost of procedure over extended qol). [/quote]

'twould need a firm chairman or it would drift off into anecdotes, irrelevancies, side issues...

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31328/vice"]Maybe dental radiography[/quote]

Maybe. But define terms exactly. Quite a lot of dental radiography can be done, with ingenuity, with the standard practice radiography set. Would you include that?