[Film] Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:36:15 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246547#246547"]

Clive Ansell said:
The same client told be that her previous practice charged £67.50 for a 15 minute consultation, and £59.50 for all follow up consultations. We charge £51 and £44 respectively.

But is your consult 15 or 20 minutes, if they need blood pressure/IOP/fluoroscein test/ear cytology what is included/extra and how much are the extras...!

[/quote]

Both 15 minutes

All extras are charged for in all of the corporates I have worked for. Fluoroscein test £17.50, BP £42, cytology c£50 in house or c£200 at an external lab. Even add-on's for EAG (£24) and nails (£24) within normal consultations.

At the indie I've been working for FL and IOP are included as part of the consultation for a basic ophthalmic examination. In house ear cytology about £22 and BP about £30, although if BP is carried out within the 15 consultation window it is not always charged. AG and nails are included as part of the consultation or vaccination fee, if required and within 15 window.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Rob Loxley — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 15:26:34 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246513#246513"]The same client told be that her previous practice charged £67.50 for a 15 minute consultation, and £59.50 for all follow up consultations. We charge £51 and £44 respectively. [/quote]

But is your consult 15 or 20 minutes, if they need blood pressure/IOP/fluoroscein test/ear cytology what is included/extra and how much are the extras...!

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

David Mills — Tue, 11 Feb 2025 10:46:19 GMT

I wonder if, in time, we will move to charging like other professions i.e. according to experience and expertise. This happens somewhat crudely already in specialist / non specialist vet med but I wonder whether first opinion will take on some of the business practices of, say solicitors (or hair stylists), whereby if you want to see the boss it is more expensive than the new grad.

Does that then tip over into surgical procedures? Because as is stands procedure fees in practices with more than a few vets are not charged per minute but as an average - thereby slower vets are 'subsidised' by quicker (normally more experienced) ones. This is, of course, already done in referral - where not only would surgeons be expected to be quicker but also charge more per minute.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246517#246517"]So for one reason or another, I think price comparisons for anything other than basic procedures are completely worthless. [/quote]

I agree.

You have to bear in mind that in most areas there is a regression to the mean, that is, most prices end up around the same point regardless of who owns the practice. Anecdotal but the fading away of 'low cost' clinics across the country (not everywhere) compared to 10 years ago somewhat highlights that price is not something practices appear to compete on - but rather they are aware of what the market will tolerate and instead chase similar clients. That only 18% of clients choose based on price suggests that either there is insufficient competition for price to be a factor OR they are resigned to things costing £X amount through years of price consolidation. If the latter, then that is possibly the legacy of changing ownership structures.

I struggle to think of similar industries. For example I recently needed a clutch replacement - prices ranged from £400 - £1200 for the same work (some minor differences on brand). I think you would struggle, in first opinion practice to see such a differential for the same work. Of course bills can be inflated by lots of other things on the subjective whim of the clinician but the base prices of most things are not too dissimilar in most cases.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 10 Feb 2025 14:24:00 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246516#246516"]Could do, but prices for routine consultations and procedures tend to be fixed and lower than those for non routine procedured, so unsure how useful it would actually be? [/quote]

Well, I guess if they are uniformly lower (ie regardless of whether indie or corp), then it could tell us something about corps vs indies.

But I think the real inflation is caused by recommending more complex treatment than would have been done in the past, and of course it would be much hard to compare those.

And of course its not just a question of how the prices compare, but how often a non-standard treatment is recommended in one place vs another.

Maybe the corporate charges double the price for the non standard treatment than the indie, but only recommends it occasionally, whereas the indie charges half the price but recommends it frequently.

So for one reason or another, I think price comparisons for anything other than basic procedures are completely worthless.

Comparisons of basic procedures are useful for comparing basic procedures, but should come with a warning:

The costs of basic, routine veterinary procedures do not necessarily reflect the costs of more complex, non-standard procedures or treatments, and cannot therefore be used to compare one practice against another for non-standard treatment. If in doubt, seek an estimate.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Mon, 10 Feb 2025 13:43:43 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246514#246514"]LOL - two cherry-picked figures don't equal data! [/quote][quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246514#246514"]I'm sure I have see it said somewhere that sharing prices counts as price fixing and is not allowed? [/quote]

So how do we begin to amass data to compare prices then?

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246514#246514"]go and find x number of practices that do publish prices for basic procedures, from around the country, 50% from corps and 50% from indies, and see how they compare.[/quote]

Could do, but prices for routine consultations and procedures tend to be fixed and lower than those for non routine procedured, so unsure how useful it would actually be?

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 10 Feb 2025 09:28:39 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246512#246512"]Yes, vets with their own businesses have to be financially 'driven' to a degree to pay the bills and earn a living so probably more financially driven but not as financially motivated as many business owners.[/quote]

I see, you're making a distinction between driven and motivated, and yes, I get that, and it feels intuitively like it is probably true in most cases.

LOL - two cherry-picked figures don't equal data!

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246513#246513"]Maybe folk could post their consultation fees on this site for comparison? [/quote]

I'm sure I have see it said somewhere that sharing prices counts as price fixing and is not allowed? Though of course if everyone has to publish their prices I wonder how that isn't the same thing.

Possibly I should do some research myself - go and find x number of practices that do publish prices for basic procedures, from around the country, 50% from corps and 50% from indies, and see how they compare.

(I wonder if enough practices yet publish prices?)

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Sun, 09 Feb 2025 19:44:18 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246510#246510"]

Clive Ansell said:
Today's example;

Which, with the greatest respect, is cherry-picking, and so not really demonstrative of anything at all. I am sure someone arguing pro corporate could equally pull out examples of where they were cheaper than the local indie.

[/quote]

Up to a point I suppose, it was just one example of a comparison between 2 practices of their charges for issing written prescriptions

The same client told be that her previous practice charged £67.50 for a 15 minute consultation, and £59.50 for all follow up consultations. We charge £51 and £44 respectively.

Maybe folk could post their consultation fees on this site for comparison?

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Sun, 09 Feb 2025 11:44:08 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246510#246510"]most front line vets are less financially driven than most, but I am not sure if that holds true of most vets who own their business.[/quote]

Yes, vets with their own businesses have to be financially 'driven' to a degree to pay the bills and earn a living so probably more financially driven but not as financially motivated as many business owners. As you have said before, if we would have done something else if we wanted to earn lots of money Companed with many businesses we are lucky (not sure that's the right word) in that we can charge well for our time (arguable) so we have broad gross margins. Maybe not most, but at least some (and it would be interesting to have the figures) realise that if they get their pricing right, and are moderately sensible, that gross margin means profit will follow, but its the animal fixing that gets us out of bed in the mornings.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 09 Feb 2025 08:59:59 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246496#246496"]Today's example; [/quote]

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246499#246499"]Sorry but dispute that too. The big surge in improvement came long before the corporates surge. Private referral practice started to thrive from the 1980s (some would argue earlier) common use of CT and MRI soon followed, and I would say was available nationwide in the hands of the private referral practices (entrepreneur vet owned) and some others from late 1990s to 2000s. [/quote]

That's really interesting .... I mean I know private referral practice predated corporates, but it would be interesting to have some MRI sales figures to see how they have performed over the last 30 years. I suspect they have accelerated with the arrival of the corporates.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246500#246500"]Me too, perhaps when CMA insists we have some pricing on websites we will, otherwise it might be the traditional ring round.[/quote]

Like Clive, I just can't see how pricing is ever going to produce anything useful. Even if you could make people display like for like prices, which would be near impossible because of the different ways of treating the same condition, you still have the problem of the Ryanair promotion.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246501#246501"]I think you are definitely playing devil's advocate here I'm sure you know I meant different motivation and 'drive' is much more likely to belong to the prvate business owner. [/quote]

I'm not sure I quite understand your point. I wasnt trying to be devil's advocate - genuinely think that I think probably most front line vets are less financially driven than most, but I am not sure if that holds true of most vets who own their business. Obviously some more than others!

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Sat, 08 Feb 2025 09:47:40 GMT

I think that would be too open to manipulation? folk could cherry pick which prices go on a website, and could just post the cheapest ones, or use phrases like "blood test from £x"

A local to me low cost chain (Non corporate at the time) a few years ago had a Ryanair style website promotion, "cat dentals all in £45" However, in the small, barely readable print, that did not include any extractions, blood tests or fluids. Once through the door, out came the hard sell and most cases would go out with bills into the £100's on a par with other local practices at the time. In fact in many cases they were more expensive.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Sat, 08 Feb 2025 09:22:21 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246495#246495"]I might question whether the drive for a middle management bean counter to produce profit is necessarily any more than that of a private business owner![/quote]

I think you are definitely playing devil's advocate here I'm sure you know I meant different motivation and 'drive' is much more likely to belong to the prvate business owner. Target and profit and loss led is probably a better motivation for the bean counter. It has been said by a number that vets aren't financially motivated, they are highly motivated by the desire to fix animals. I can only speak for my partnership but doubt we were unusual - we worked out quite quickly that you have to make profit to buy all the toys to fix animals, so we hired a bean counter who understood us to make sure we made that profit while we got on with the fun stuff, aided and abetted by similarly motivated employees.

That is a very different MO from the corporates and their bean counters who are duty bound to maximise profit for their shareholders.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Sat, 08 Feb 2025 09:12:52 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246495#246495"]I wish with a capital W that there was some proper data on this[/quote]

Me too, perhaps when CMA insists we have some pricing on websites we will, otherwise it might be the traditional ring round.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Sat, 08 Feb 2025 09:07:28 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246495#246495"]but that CAN be given to pets[/quote]

Sorry but dispute that too. The big surge in improvement came long before the corporates surge. Private referral practice started to thrive from the 1980s (some would argue earlier) common use of CT and MRI soon followed, and I would say was available nationwide in the hands of the private referral practices (entrepreneur vet owned) and some others from late 1990s to 2000s. Certificates and Diplomas available from private practice the same time so expertise equally nationally available., Practice Standards firstly through BSAVA 1990s -2000s then RCVS. Big uptake Privately owned practice encouraging good facilities and improved working terms and conditions for staff. Private first opinion practice pioneered through the same era too (definitely starting earlier). The corporate consolidation model has largely just bought what was already well developed.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Fri, 07 Feb 2025 15:01:15 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246495#246495"]I wish with a capital W that there was some proper data on this, because I just don't trust anecdotal observations ... because of confirmation bias more than anything else. Also because it must be difficult to compare prices when, even as an insider, you may not know if you are comparing like with like.[/quote]

Maybe some of us could start amassing data?

Today's example; I've seen a new client this morning changing vets because of fees. Old dog on numerous heart medication. We (Independent) charge £14.50 to issue a single written prescription for one item, £9.50 for additional items. The previous practice (corporate) charges £32.50 and £28.50 respectively. In addition we will issue a written script for up to 6 months worth of treatment, depending on when we need to wee the patient again. The corporate will only issue a month at a time, so the client pays every month. This client was paying £89.50 a month in prescription fees, with us it will be £33.50 for 3 months.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 07 Feb 2025 12:57:53 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246490#246490"]It is understandable that a bean counter (defined as an accountant type human who works for the goals of a corporate witth limited knowledge of the profession) sees a MRI as a profit generator (that is what machines are employed to do in more normal industries)[/quote]

I might question whether the drive for a middle management bean counter to produce profit is necessarily any more than that of a private business owner!

But yes, I think when you divorce pricing decisions from the people who directly see the impact, that may well be inflationary.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246493#246493"]I work in both corporate and independent practices, and independent fees are around 75% that of the corporates overall. a lot of variability of course, some things may cost about the same, others may cost double. [/quote]

I wish with a capital W that there was some proper data on this, because I just don't trust anecdotal observations ... because of confirmation bias more than anything else. Also because it must be difficult to compare prices when, even as an insider, you may not know if you are comparing like with like.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246493#246493"]

Arlo Guthrie said:
which has improved the level of care that can be given to pets.

I would dispute that. I don't think the level of care given to pets overall has improved,

[/quote]

For clarity, I didnt say that has improved the level of care that IS given to pets, but that CAN be given to pets. So I don't think we are in dispute. I too wonder whether overall care has improved. I saw a phrase on Linkedin this morning which caught my eye: economic euthanasia to describe the increasingly common treatment option as veterinary care has become more unaffordable.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Fri, 07 Feb 2025 10:16:49 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246485#246485"]

Clive Ansell said:
If more folk are taking an ever increasing slice of the pie (

I just don't think it is that simple.

[/quote]

It probably is an oversimplification, but there is a given pot of loot and the more that is taken out, the more has to be paid back in, simple as that. Doesn't grow on trees as my old Grandad used to say.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246485#246485"]As far as I know, there is no data to tell us whether the corporates are more or less expensive than indies, and anecdotally people will share examples of each being more expensive than the other. [/quote]

I work in both corporate and independent practices, and independent fees are around 75% that of the corporates overall. a lot of variability of course, some things may cost about the same, others may cost double.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246485#246485"]which has improved the level of care that can be given to pets.[/quote]

I would dispute that. I don't think the level of care given to pets overall has improved, if anything it has declined, certainly at the lower end basic level of the spectrum.

High level care is available at some practices, referral centres and (some) OOH clinics, but a large section of the population is excluded from that because of costs. Those at the lower end and not on benefits so don't qualify for charity assistance are finding it harder to access basic level care at a reasonable cost. Out of hours care is becoming increasingly inaccessible , many simply will not or cannot attend because of costs and distances involved.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 23:42:24 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246485#246485"]For example, the corporates have invested hugely in equipment, which has improved the level of care that can be given to pets. Whether or not that was sensible, or what the market really wanted, is a separate debate, but that is an example of where some of the money has gone.[/quote]

Yes, in some cases that is true, but not all. The local practice to ours was taken over. To the very best of my knowledge, they have no special or expensive equipment that they didn't have before the takeover. If they are running MRI and CT they are not advertising it locally. It's the same building, some of the same staff (many gone, many locums), same kit and yet prices of ops have doubled in 12 months. Given some prices quoted by clients registering 100% mark ups on drugs. By far the biggest driver in vet inflation in my town has been acquisition by CVS.

Obviously, private practice can do what they want. Yes, some will set themselves up as premium providers of services and charge accordingly. On average (if we avoid the headlines) prices go up when corporates take over. Logically the more people employed in the business and taking a cut, the more money needs to be raised to keep the whole thing afloat.

I could probably earn a similar sum to my profits as an employee, but I try and be as fair as I can to everyone. I want to keep vet care affordable. A lot of my friends are clients and I want to be able to look them in the eye.

This is by far the biggest driver in vet fee inflation.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 21:22:18 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246488#246488"]People who work at corporates are easily caricatured as money-grabbing,[/quote]

I wasn't having a go at people - it is the legal entity of the corporate itself with its primary duty to maximise profit. It is understandable that a bean counter (defined as an accountant type human who works for the goals of a corporate witth limited knowledge of the profession) sees a MRI as a profit generator (that is what machines are employed to do in more normal industries). The conflict comes between industry and profession and business vs animal welfare. Looks like CMA is a bit worried about that too "The larger vet businesses (and some others) are owned by non-vets and
important management roles may be filled by non-vets. People who are not
trained in animal care and welfare are therefore sometimes taking decisions
which affect how veterinary care is provided."

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 16:06:39 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246486#246486"]What I do disagree with it is the assumption that that equates to improved level of care. [/quote]

Sorry, I'm not saying it necessarily does, even for the small number of pets it is used on. But I think that's the intent, and I am sure it does in many cases.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246486#246486"]Motivation for buying the money generating MRI and CT machines may be dubious and insisting on using them before treatments (not always appropriately) is making fees cost prohibitive for some clients so maybe worse care overall.[/quote]

Honestly, I think it is easy and usually wrong to question people's motives. People who work at corporates are easily caricatured as money-grabbing, when the truth is that they are people like the rest of us, and there is no reason to think they aren't equally driven by the same desire to offer a good service.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with you that having perhaps invested in the kit with the best of intent, there is then a pressure to use it. And maybe that does push the price up for others. And the CMA makes the point that decision making about things which affect consumers (like price, or the type of equipment being invested in) are often removed from the people actually delivering the care these days.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246486#246486"]Also, is it possible that the money spent on those diagnostic machines is preventing money from being spent on other cost areas so that care in other those other areas is compromised? [/quote]

I am sure. But isn't it easy and very human to be beguiled by the latest flashing machine? I know I am!

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Judith Joyce — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 15:44:00 GMT

Not disagreeing that corporates have invested in advanced diagnostic equipment (bot then so did a generation of independents before them). What I do disagree with it is the assumption that that equates to improved level of care. It might for a small number of pets but what about the pet population as a whole. Motivation for buying the money generating MRI and CT machines may be dubious and insisting on using them before treatments (not always appropriately) is making fees cost prohibitive for some clients so maybe worse care overall.

Also, is it possible that the money spent on those diagnostic machines is preventing money from being spent on other cost areas so that care in other those other areas is compromised?

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:58:22 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246479#246479"]Yes, still waiting on the video explaining how your vet bills have gone up so much as the venture capitalists, regional director, IT consultant, marketing department, car park resurfacer etc all want their cut........[/quote]

I have been waiting for one of the corporates to come and give its side of the story, so the film is not too far away now.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246480#246480"]Rocket science it is not.[/quote]

But ....

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246480#246480"]If more folk are taking an ever increasing slice of the pie ([/quote]

I just don't think it is that simple.

As far as I know, there is no data to tell us whether the corporates are more or less expensive than indies, and anecdotally people will share examples of each being more expensive than the other.

To my mind, there seems little doubt that corporatisation has been an inflationary factor, but I think the narrative that it is all being spent on IT consultants, car park resurfacers or venture capitalists (or indeed that an indie couldn't find other ways of spending money) is very over-simplistic.

For example, the corporates have invested hugely in equipment, which has improved the level of care that can be given to pets. Whether or not that was sensible, or what the market really wanted, is a separate debate, but that is an example of where some of the money has gone.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Wed, 05 Feb 2025 20:52:54 GMT

Rocket science it is not.

If more folk are taking an ever increasing slice of the pie (And some of these guy's are really greedy and want big big slices) then the pie has to be bigger (higher fees and greater workload) and/or the slices handed out to those lower down the chain has to get increasingly smaller (real term pay cuts), and/or the number receiving a slice is reduced (Redundancies). No other way.

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 05 Feb 2025 20:36:28 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31126/film-club-pragmatic-veterinary-diagnostic-testing/246478#246478"]particularly corporate, practice where they there to make as much money as possible. [/quote]

Yes, still waiting on the video explaining how your vet bills have gone up so much as the venture capitalists, regional director, IT consultant, marketing department, car park resurfacer etc all want their cut........

RE: Film Club: Pragmatic Veterinary Diagnostic Testing

Clive Ansell — Wed, 05 Feb 2025 15:49:24 GMT

I would give pretty much the same answer that I gave to the last film.

I already work along the the same line as outlined in the film, I only advise tests or investigations that I feel are clinically necessary. In many cases, as previously discussed, I would discuss the options, pros and cons with the client. I would give an open and honest opinion as to what is available, and how much or not it is likely to help, give answers, or change the direction of treatment, to allow the client to reach an informed decision.

There is of course a fundamental difference between a charity such as the Blue Cross, where they have limited and finite resources so have to keep costs per case down as much as they reasonably can; and private, particularly corporate, practice where they there to make as much money as possible.