Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:19:42 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31031/vaccine-protocol-conundrums/245553#245553"]What support did the drug companies give in their care?[/quote]

It was before I became Clinical Director so wasn't involved in this part. The old Clinical Directors said they were told that there isn't always a full immunity to parvo before the Year 1 booster which is why they recommend the Parvo-C 3rd dose. Not sure much was done to try and get any financial assistance for these owners.

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 21:28:56 GMT

[quote userid="11308" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31031/vaccine-protocol-conundrums/245547#245547"] Sadly, it was often puppies that had received their primary course but not their first annual booster.[/quote]

What support did the drug companies give in their care?

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Richard Carter — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 11:38:48 GMT

Yes- the disease still exists and herd immunity vital to prevent outbreaks but the level of disease is minimal compared to 1980’s / 90’s in spite of the mix and match of vaccines and reduced interval vaccine regimes. I’m even more surprised given the number of imported dogs from countries that do still have highly active disease situations- distemper as well as parvo, not to mention people with soiled shoes piling off into airports per day. So shows either 1. The vaccines in all their forms exceptionally effective (probably true) or 2. Herd immunity excellent (probably patchy but reasonably high as in most developed countries) or 3. Field disease sufficient to maintain immunity and the disease is endemic (less likely?)

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 10:20:48 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31031/vaccine-protocol-conundrums/245498#245498"]The simplest trial is comparing the distemper or parvo rates of U.K. to a country with less vaccination.[/quote]

We saw a big spike in parvo cases about 3 years ago, seeing 3 or 4 cases (at least) a week. Due to a drop in maintaining vaccinations in a couple of lower income areas near us. Sadly, it was often puppies that had received their primary course but not their first annual booster. We started recommending additional parvo vaccine as a 3rd part of the primary course at 16-20 weeks and it's dropped right off again. It's included in our pet health club too for this reason.

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Richard Carter — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 01:19:13 GMT

There are more recent wsava vaccine guidelines. While there is as you say, much panic in the veterinary field about ‘purity’ of immune response and needing to repeat the exact antigen stimulant, this isn’t how immunity works and we as scientists know this. The simplest trial is comparing the distemper or parvo rates of U.K. to a country with less vaccination. We just don’t see the cases. We really don’t see lepto either as a noticeable percentage of our cases. We see herpes and calici in unvaccinated cats or cats infected prior to vaccination. We don’t see these diseases beyond individual cases in the general cat population that very often have only had primary vaccinations and that immunity maintained by field exposure just like measles, etc in humans. Humans are not given regular re vaccination eg mmr, tb. Yes the nhs trots out flu vaccines for elderly but not sure this is science or being seen to do something

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 20:45:17 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/clinical-questions/31031/vaccine-protocol-conundrums/245491#245491"] if this every came to be tested legally what would happen?[/quote]

Flip it back, what support do we, or should we, expect in the event of a vaccine failure, reaction etc?

I recently had a 3 month battle to get A drug company to pay for a vaccine/vasovagal reaction in a puppy, costing less than £100 and was made to sign a non-disclosure agreement. I remember as a student a drug company picking up the whole bill for some rotties with parvo, as though it was expected.

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

David Mills — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 09:45:41 GMT

Science vs data sheets.

The first is relatively disinterested, the second entirely self-interested.

Of course no one is going to test their 'compatibility' with other manufacturer competing products. It is telling that this never comes up (Covid aside - but then that was a new vaccine and subsequent years' boosters you just took whichever) in human medicine. I've never quite got the somewhat illogical practice of first and second injections of primary vaccines have to be the same brand, but boosters can be different brands - but then again there are other non clinical factors at play.

It makes you wonder if this every came to be tested legally what would happen?

RE: Vaccine Protocol Conundrums

Beats — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 10:21:30 GMT

It all comes down to whether you consider a duration of immunity (DOI) on a datasheet to be a minimum or a maximum. I consider it to be a minimum.

It then comes down to your knowledge of your local population and disease risk.

Finally comes your own scientific reasoning.

I guess for the RCVS it would then come down to informed consent and a drawer full of signed paperwork, no matter how detrimental exercising defensive medicine is to providing a cost-effective and actually effective service to the pet-owning public. What I tell the younger vets is that they are statistically much more likely to leave the profession through disillusionment or stress than be forcibly removed from it by the RCVS, and as focusing on the latter risk is more likely to lead to the former reasons for departing the profession, then it is probably not a good focal point to be elevating above others.