Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Rob Loxley — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 17:12:18 GMT

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241901#241901"] According to the computer at the moment we would charge £91 for a series of dental xrays in a dog (not including sedation/ ga)[/quote]

Say you do 1 series per day, maybe round down to 120/yr, giving about 10k extra income per year.

Nice dental setup (IM3 generator and CR7) costs 15k + some installation and maybe RPA fees; Running costs and servicing maybe 500 per year.

So you're into positive cash flow in year 2 (and quicker if you went for a cheaper xray tube and maybe a size2 DR system), and that's excluding any tax befits from capex.

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 15:15:17 GMT

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241901#241901"]The fees you've mentioned seem quite steep to me. According to the computer at the moment we would charge £91 for a series of dental xrays in a dog (not including sedation/ ga). At that price I guess we would need to use the machine about 17-18 times a month to just cut even on it. That's highly unlikely, so price would have to go up, probably considerably as in the above that's just the machine figured in but not staff time and running costs.[/quote]

And suppose you bought the thing, for say 50 thousand pounds. And suppose you were fortunately able to pay cash rather than going to the moneylenders (well, I guess Linnaeus/Mars Petcare would probably be able to pay cash). What would you need to charge to pay for the thing over three years, or even five? And stuck with the thing rather than being able to end the contract with three months notice.

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241901#241901"]

Evelyn Barbour-Hill said:
So who does actually make the decision? He, she or it seems a little, er, blinkered, shall we say.

Linnaeus, i.e. Mars petcare. I honestly don't know which person exactly, I'll check with the practice manager where I should direct any suggestions or wishes to once she's back from holiday.

[/quote]

Do you read the Spectator?See Rory Sutherland's column this week.

Actually, it's all moot, because I have just, this morning, been informed that they are dropping the rent-and-pay-per-study structure and if I want the machine I will have to buy it. But, rather nice, there's a 30% discount for independent practices!

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Andreas Ege — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 14:01:39 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241851#241851"]So who does actually make the decision? He, she or it seems a little, er, blinkered, shall we say.[/quote]

Linnaeus, i.e. Mars petcare. I honestly don't know which person exactly, I'll check with the practice manager where I should direct any suggestions or wishes to once she's back from holiday.

If I get the impression it might make a difference I'll get back to the question.

[quote userid="2131" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241851#241851"]There's nothing wrong with the pricing structure. In fact I think it not a bad idea at all.[/quote]

Guess that depends on once opinion. I'm a bit old fashioned that way - I prefer to own my equipment (or software, for that) rather than renting/ subscribing to it.

The fees you've mentioned seem quite steep to me. According to the computer at the moment we would charge £91 for a series of dental xrays in a dog (not including sedation/ ga). At that price I guess we would need to use the machine about 17-18 times a month to just cut even on it. That's highly unlikely, so price would have to go up, probably considerably as in the above that's just the machine figured in but not staff time and running costs.

Admittedly, not sure if my mental arrithmatics go along the right lines and don't know if it makes sense from an economic view, my experience running a business is limited to a Ltd or sole trader for locuming purposes. And almost certainly not anything I'll have any say in. :-)

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 30 Jun 2023 00:15:54 GMT

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241847#241847"]I had some private feedback as well, between those opinions and the pricing structure I think I'll just keep pushing for a conventional dental x-ray.[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with the pricing structure. In fact I think it not a bad idea at all.

Remember too that everyone else in the practice will find the Adaptix invaluable too, except for the chest (because it can't be doing wi' movement).

But yes, most people would probably say "but I would still want my conventional dental system" (partly, because that's what we're used to?) so it makes sense to get your conventional system first.

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241847#241847"]So, yes, some information about dental x-ray machines would be most welcome[/quote]

Ask away. Maybe a new thread with "dental" in the title to get people like Rob Davies and Rachel Perry interested.

[quote userid="13609" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241847#241847"] I assume my actual influence on the decision will be limited at best.[/quote]

So who does actually make the decision? He, she or it seems a little, er, blinkered, shall we say.

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Andreas Ege — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 17:02:09 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/clinical-questions/30696/has-anyone-experience-with-the-adaptix-3d/241781#241781"]that’s mad, the dental X-ray setup would have paid for itself within that period, and made your dentistry so much happier![/quote]

Yep, and would have saved some referrals. Unfortunately, even though I was sent on a "dental champion" cpd, the influence I have on the decision seems somewhat limited.

@ Evelyn

thank you for the assessment. Root canal wouldn't be an issue (at least not at the moment) as we don't have anybody doing that. -:)).

I had some private feedback as well, between those opinions and the pricing structure I think I'll just keep pushing for a conventional dental x-ray.

So, yes, some information about dental x-ray machines would be most welcome, though as mentioned above, I assume my actual influence on the decision will be limited at best.

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 24 Jun 2023 06:33:08 GMT

“ been promised a dental xray machine for the last 2 or 3 years and the promise has just been renewed, I hope it will eventually manifest”

that’s mad, the dental X-ray setup would have paid for itself within that period, and made your dentistry so much happier!

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

David Mills — Sat, 24 Jun 2023 00:07:50 GMT

Adaptix is a great piece of kit. Probably game changing when other get involved.

But their charging structure is way, way off. It’s a subscription. Borne by the client. At a x price per patient. Practices using it will make next to zero unless they charge upwards of £300 for an X-ray.

I suspect it will change in the future to some more sensible pricing.

RE: Has anyone experience with the Adaptix 3d?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:11:33 GMT

I haven't got one yet, but I'm almost certainly going to, so I'll be happy to share further experiences. I've had two very thorough and lengthy demonstrations and I'm quite impressed.

From the strictly dental point of view, it's going to be great: for instance, a dog whole-dentition survey in one scan instead of around 40 separate exposures; and brilliant rabbit images much easier to interpret than a set of 'conventional' exposures (with care and effort you can get much information with 'conventional' rabbit images, but it is difficult). Excellent views of the temporomandibular joint, and of the tympanic bullae without that awkward down-the-throat positioning. For maxillofacial stuff, much better visualisation of complex skull fractures (though cone-beam CT is even better). And so on.

For anything orthopaedic, excellent analytic views of joints without the hassle and expense of CT. Excellent visualistion of comminuted fractures (so difficult sometimes with 'conventional' orthogonal views).

Will be great, I think, for whole-body radiographs of reptiles and small mammals.

BUT: to my mind, and for my purposes, I still need the conventional dental system. Because, for instance, if I want to check the file length during a root canal procedure I want a snapshot immediately; I don't want to have to move the patient to the Adaptix and wait for a minute-and-a-bit for the scan to come through. You will have to think about this. You might feel you ought to get a conventional system first. I'll be happy to discuss if you like.

The scan comes through straight after the scanning, to the dedicated laptop where you can do clever things with it and that may be all you need, but it is stored in "The Cloud" which will take a few minutes depending on your internet connection speed. Once it's in the cloud you can access it from your browser on any computer (so, get it up on your 27 inch Apple desktop) and do clever things with it.

Cost? The manufacturers are still thinking how best to charge. They don't sell the machine to you. They essentially lend it to you – so you will always have the latest versions of everything, especially the software – and you pay £1000 per month plus £25 per study (a 'study' being any number of scans on one patient in one day). And if you decide eventually it's not for you, you can end the contract (with 3 months notice, I think) without penalty.

How you charge for radiographs and scans is up to you – I can't tell you how to do that.

It's worth noting that you deal with the manufacturers – no dealers or other middlemen.

If I get the thing, I intend to make it available to all the neighbouring practices, who I think will find it valuable for orthopaedics and exotics.

This seems now to read rather like an advertisement! I can assure you it is not, and I have no shares in the company. I can see the limitations as well as the advantages.

Some of my dental colleagues are being a bit sniffy about the Adaptix, muttering about cone beam CT being superior, etc. ... Well, maybe, once you have mastered the interpretation of the CBCT (not that difficult, but it does take some learning); if you can afford to buy the CBCT machine... They are two different systems and they do two different things.