Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 00:57:32 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240950#240950"] They broke when staff dropped them on the floor.[/quote]

Never let the staff near them!

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 03 Mar 2023 00:06:02 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240948#240948"] Sorry Dinu.[/quote]

That's ok Evelyn, I'm sure I can survive not being always right.

But then this comes:

[quote userid="11021" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240949#240949"] Its a nonsense that you have to use a rigid scope for noses.[/quote]

Is it though? An almost identical question appeared a few weeks ago in the endoscopy veterinary society google group and the answers were 100% in the favor of rigid scopes for cats. I certainly don't dispute your experience and knowledge but...

I am yet to see a flexible fibrescope with a better image than a rigid scope. Yes, maybe videoscopes are the same or better but you are looking at 6000 pounds or more of a flexible videoscope or more if you need to buy the video processor as well. A rigid scope from Vesco will be around 1500.

Anyone matching new and older videoscopes keep in mind that the chips have changed in the flexible scopes and even from the same company different generations of equipment may not work together. So you can't fit a newer scope on an older video processor.

Break the videoscope: 2500-3000 pounds repair. Break the rigid scope: 500-800 pounds repairs.

[quote userid="11021" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240949#240949"]Unsheathed rigid scopes are sharp and as important is they are very easily bent and permanently damaged with surprisingly little pressure.[/quote]

Well, not entirely true I'm afraid. All multipurpose rigid rhinoscopes are basically unsheathed rigid scopes and I am yet to break or bend one during a rhinoscopy. They broke when staff dropped them on the floor.

However, the flexible scopes, when they break, you feel it.

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240837#240837"]I would not use a flexible for rhinoscopy, you will not see much. [/quote]

As so many do well with flexible endoscopy I'll of course have to retract by authoritative statement and try the bronchoscope up a cat's nose.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Andria Cauvin — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 23:15:06 GMT

Unsheathed rigid scopes are sharp and as important is they are very easily bent and permanently damaged with surprisingly little pressure. Try and pick up some small flexible intubation scopes second hand and there are now available, google it , disposible human bronchoscopes that people are cold sterilising for reuse. Its a nonsense that you have to use a rigid scope for noses. I would miss lots if I only used my rigid scopes.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 22:49:48 GMT

[quote userid="8184" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/medicine/f/discussions/30583/rhinoscopy-in-cats-and-small-dogs/240938#240938"]I have been told also that in some rare occasion you can use the rigid endoscope without the sheath to fit in the nose, with all the risks that this carries. Have you ever done that? [/quote]

No, because when I look at the end of the unsheathed instrument I see a sharp edge. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it would be likely that you'd soon be swamped by blood. I'd be glad to be contradicted.

I used to use the 3.7mm flexible endoscope both retrograde and orthograde quite happily and saw lots, until some one told me I "had to" use a rigid one. Sorry Dinu.

If you see a very tiny flexible one on Ebay, cheap enough not to upset your manager, snap it up even if it's supposedly non-ideal.

(Don't get me started on managers)

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

orik — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 10:47:50 GMT

Thank you Pauline and Adria. Unfortunately I can't justify to my manager the purchase of a set of other endoscopes to cover small dogs and cats because I don't have enough cases, working in first opinion.

I use the 3.8mm bronchoscope to check the nasopharinx on a regular basis.

I have been told also that in some rare occasion you can use the rigid endoscope without the sheath to fit in the nose, with all the risks that this carries. Have you ever done that?

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:36:29 GMT

Two new posters in the main forum, one after the other . A very warm welcome, Andria Cauvin and Pauline Jamieson.

A couple of things.

Pauline, one of the things we really want this site to offer is authoritative opinions, unlike those you find on Facebook where you often have no way of telling whether someone is one of the country's leading referral cardiologists, or a road sweeper. So could I ask you to add a little detail in your profile - primarily qualifications. Have a look at Andria's profile (click her name above), which shows how to do it!

Also (Andria you might be interested to know this too), if you set your profile to public, that makes LIMITED profile details visible without being logged into VetSurgeon.org (current workplace/ quals/ about / year and place of qualification). That can be very useful for referral practitioners who want to become more visible online (over time, you would expect your VetSurgeon.org profile to start appearing in results searching for you by name, and we will be doing work to make it appear for a search for a referral practitioner in a specific discipline/area).

Hope that is useful/interesting.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Pauline Jamieson — Thu, 02 Mar 2023 08:30:50 GMT

I also use a flexible gastroscope (7.9mm or 5.9mm) so have good visualisation with flexibility in all directions, flush, a channel for forceps e.g. to deride fungal plaques. The limitation is that the dog needs to be big enough. For smaller dogs and cats the Stortz 1.9 mm rigid with integrated sheath already mentioned has been a godsend - it was expensive but worth it if you are doing a lot of these. For those dogs inbetween sizes we have a larger rigid scope (ancient, is unbranded) with removable sheath. Unfortunately I don't think one size fits all - not surprising really when you can be scoping anything anything from a cat to a Great Dane....oh and also a bronchoscope or gastroscope denoting on size of animal for inspection of the nasopharynx.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Andria Cauvin — Wed, 01 Mar 2023 19:00:45 GMT

So I use mostly flexible scopes because the ones I have are very small gi scopes that do the 180 degree bend that allows you to examine the nasopharyx, they have large biopsy channels that double up as water channels and suction so you can flush like a rigid scope and excellent optics. Best of both worlds but not easy to come by. Bronchoscopes and intubation scopes are easy to come by second hand and cheap so try vetsco if you want more but they don't retroflex like the gi scopes. You can though get a 3mm one that allows you to run front to back most noses and flush as you go. Limitation is the teeny biopsy channels if they have one at all but at least you can determine if there is anything in the nose and can then biopsy blind. I have two storz rigid scopes inc the 1.9mm one they recommend for cats but it is combined in an integral operating sheath so is actually more than 1.9mm. Image quality is very good but expensive kit but you can also use them for cystoscopy and ears etc.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 20:32:51 GMT

For rhinoscopy you are better off with a rigid endoscope with a working channel so you can continuously flush debris and blood. Cheaper than Storz you can buy from Eickenmeyer and from Vesco. The Vesco one has a bigger working channel so better biopsies but you might struggle with cats.

I would not use a flexible for rhinoscopy, you will not see much.

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:52:11 GMT

The biggest that will fit, is the answer. My advice would be to get yourself a collection. I can stop talking if I'm not being helpful, but I think it's a bit like saying what kind of ET tube do you use in cats or small dogs and the answer could be 2mm or 5mm......

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:20 GMT

Michael Woodhouse - I think the question was what you use (rigid / flexible / 1.9 / 2.7 / 3.8).

RE: Rhinoscopy in cats and small dogs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:25:42 GMT

Lots of 2.7mm scopes on ebay and a few 2.3mm arthroscopes, but they are quite short.

Don't be a fool and buy a new one or a rebranded heap of Chinese junk with a vet badge.