Surgeon age restrictions.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

George Cooper — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 22:09:22 GMT

at 73 and until elbowed out by the Gold Standard Fixated corpse was operating as well and as timely as I had ever, with genuinely positive outcomes (without their fancy ridicule-invoking protocols). Motor skills were unimpaired and visual acuity likewise - BUT it was one of my personal "lets watch this and discuss" topics with other staff members.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Bibs — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 17:47:30 GMT

I like to hear this. There is so much to learn, not just clinically but in terns of the soft skills, it never ends as long as you're interested. I think you use it or lose it. My dad is well into his 70s and until recently was getting up at 4am when on call for his boat captain job - he didn't seem to struggle. He was till passing the medical. He only stopped because of COVID.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Paul Kensington — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 17:30:36 GMT

Yes, I feel the same. I'm in more demand as a locum as I age and feel I improve as a vet every year - I'm now 67 and have to turn work away. I have more skills then when I was younger, do things better and my client skills are better. As well I am still interested in acquiring knowledge and improving skills. I am working at the moment with a vet in his 70s who is still very sharp, in great demand and very competent. So I think it's a very individual thing as you age.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

mark bridge — Tue, 01 Feb 2022 16:59:39 GMT

I'm a 63 year old veterinarian in the US. When I read the thread title I thought it would be a discussion about not allowing new graduates to do surgery until they'd accumulated more experience. I enjoy surgery, preferring it to interacting with the hoi polloi.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 21:41:33 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235322#235322"]You don't have to wait 20 years. Sell in 5, count the millions and locum 3 days a week for the rest of your working life. [/quote]

PMSL

I find 2 days is plenty. . But, then again, I did do 14 years of ownership first!

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 13:47:38 GMT

I agree with Clive, we as an independent are busier than we have ever been (and our closest two practices are also independent). A couple of other neighbouring practices have sold out in the last few years. One of them we didn’t get many moving until about 2 years post sale when prices started to go up massively. The other sold out last year and we have had quite a lot of movement already, mostly clients citing the fact they have sold out as a reason to move. We are holding out hoping to not sell to a corporate and persuade our other vets to buy in!

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Clive Ansell — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:46:58 GMT

But things may well change.

The teat may run dry, and large corporates may well stop buying up practices; either because they have reached a certain target market share in an area effectively giving them a local monopoly (Already happening); or they run out of financial backing as their investors pull out their money for whatever reason.

Of all the practices I know that have sold to corporates, the original owner has retained the ownership of the building which they lease to the corporate. If that is widespread, and investors take out their money, it could all crash if they have few tangible assets.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 23:54:16 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235223#235223"]

There is another way

Live within your means, don't buy a flash new car every year, camp, don't stay in expensive hotels, live to work....

[/quote]

Well, this depends on everyone's definition of a comfortable retirement fund.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235300#235300"]I cant help wondering whether, in twenty years, there will still be any independent practices left, or buyers for them? I certainly hope so.[/quote]

You don't have to wait 20 years. Sell in 5, count the millions and locum 3 days a week for the rest of your working life.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Clive Ansell — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:47:29 GMT

Oh Matron! I think there will be. The three independents that I work for are busier than ever and are thriving, to the point that the books are closed to new clients at the moment. More clients seem to be seeking out independent over corporate practices.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:30:43 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235223#235223"]Live within your means, don't buy a flash new car every year, camp,[/quote]

I'm not sure how the latter helps

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235120#235120"]The only good plan is to open a practice and flog it before you retire. I honestly can't see any other way. [/quote]

I cant help wondering whether, in twenty years, there will still be any independent practices left, or buyers for them? I certainly hope so.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Bibs — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 21:53:20 GMT

I was thinking again about this thread and question. First of all I don’t think we should try to align ourselves too much with what they do in human medicine. It’s obviously much more specialised and you can’t really compare a human vascular surgeon for example, with a GP vet, in terms of fine motor skills requirements. My second thought was that if we want to actually be more careful maybe auditing our own outcomes would be the best option rather than arbitrary age limits. Being able to say your routine post op infection or complication rate was low etc. it would be a real shame to limit due to age, especially when we let loose 22yr olds with basically limited training.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Joyce Whitehead — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:18:02 GMT

Snap Jill, I’m also 61. My eyesight isn’t too bad at present, I’ve worn glasses for years anyway. I do sometimes find myself adjusting my varifocals but that is more of a computer screen height issue than surgical. I still do a fair bit of surgery, as the most experienced small animal surgeon at the practice I will often help the younger vets. I’m also happy to let them crack on with routine ops though, they enjoy them and I’m not too bothered if I miss out these days. I still enjoy consulting too, and do a fair bit of management type stuff, especially just now as our practice manager is undergoing chemo.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Jill Steed — Tue, 18 Jan 2022 18:43:17 GMT

I’m (just) 61. I love surgery and like you that would be my ideal thing to do as a locum.
I would be quite sad to be condemned to consulting only on grounds of age. I don’t really mind consulting if it’s not all day for 9hrs plus, but I’m a bit/a lot rubbish at learning computer systems…

I did once work in a practice where the part time older lady vet had to have one of the rest of us there or on call for her because she could no longer see a vein…I wouldn’t want to be that vet

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Clive Ansell — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:16:23 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235223#235223"]

Live within your means, don't buy a flash new car every year, camp, don't stay in expensive hotels, live to work....

Neil

[/quote]

That's very much my mindset too.

It must be so much harder for our younger colleagues starting out though; student debts, salaries that have declined in real terms, cost of housing and general living, and very limited potential or possibilities to buy into a practice as a partner. I feel for them, they have it tough.

That said, it could be a great time to put up your own plate and run your own show. I feel there are oppourtunities out there; loads of work, good work with good clients, increasing number of homes and families with pets, and there seems a move away from corporates with some clients - I see an increasing number of new clients and second opinions asking if the practice is corporate or not.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:25:50 GMT

There is another way

Live within your means, don't buy a flash new car every year, camp, don't stay in expensive hotels, live to work....

Neil

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:50:50 GMT

Cripes, I'm 73 in June and I've no intention of wasting the skill , tactile sensitivity and judgment acquired. Probably the learning curve is at a very low angle now, but I doubt if it will ever reach a plateau.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Clive Ansell — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 20:29:33 GMT

[quote userid="11590" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235097#235097"]I'm still in my 30s now though so maybe I'll figure out a different plan before then. [/quote]

Crikey, by the time you reach retirement age I think folk will routinely be beavering away until they are in their 80's just to pay off lifetime debts.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 22:54:55 GMT

[quote userid="2180" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235123#235123"]However, you must work within your competence[/quote]

Ahhh, that word again

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

jd2008 — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 22:31:02 GMT

This is from the Royal College of Surgeons of England: "The default retirement age (formerly 65) has been phased out (see the gov.uk website for more information about this), and it is now difficult for an NHS employer to insist that you retire. However, you must work within your competence and ensure your practice is safe."

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 22:10:20 GMT

The only good plan is to open a practice and flog it before you retire. I honestly can't see any other way.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Bibs — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:41:40 GMT

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235110#235110"]Good luck withvtha Bibs. Soon after qualifying in 1981! I was advised to starting putting money into a pension plan which I didMy starting salary in a 90% SA practice in the north-west was £6,600 and I started investing with £ 30 per month as I recall, increasing it very gradually over the years. This was a very wise investment with Syandard ife who happily funded [??] my early retirement in 2013 after myh ead-trauma. i now have a comfortable pension thanks to my excellent financial advisor based in Manchester Suttonsifa... So it was a good incvestment for me it turned out! I hope that this helps you in some way, young lady? [/quote]

Thank you. I wish I had been as clever as you right at the start!

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Clive Ansell — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:06:53 GMT

People age at different rates, so I think it would be difficult to have a one size fits all approach.

My 82 year old 25% sighted mother still does intricate needlework and embroidery. On the other hand I recently had a student with me who had terrible dexterity and eye to hand coordination.

I am 60 next year, and if it is possible would like to move towards more surgery only locums. I can't stand people and consulting seems to becoming more of a PITA the older I get.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Julian Earl — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:39:50 GMT

[quote userid="11590" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30145/surgeon-age-restrictions/235097#235097"]more of an issue in the future if more of us are struggling to retire. I was thinking I might struggle to save enough in my pension to retire below 70. The salaries and offerings of 3% contribution to pension are not improving my hopes. I'm still in my 30s now though so maybe I'll figure out a different plan before then. [/quote]

Good luck with that Bibs. Soon after qualifying in 1981! I was advised to starting putting money into a pension plan which I did My starting salary in a 90% SA practice in the north-west was £6,600 and I started investing with £ 30 per month as I recall, increasing it very gradually over the years. This was a very wise investment with Syandard ife who happily[??], funded [ my early retirement in 2013 after my Head-trauma. i now have a comfortable pension thanks to my excellent financial advisor based in Manchester Suttonsifa... So it was a good investment for me it turned out! I hope that this helps you in some way, young lady?

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Bibs — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:21:46 GMT

Might be more of an issue in the future if more of us are struggling to retire. I was thinking I might struggle to save enough in my pension to retire below 70. The salaries and offerings of 3% contribution to pension are not improving my hopes. I'm still in my 30s now though so maybe I'll figure out a different plan before then.

RE: Surgeon age restrictions.

Bob Russell — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:21:01 GMT

Seems to be a hot topic in the States.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856535/

Older surgeons seem to have a higher patient mortality rate but is this because they are the most experienced and tackle the more challenging cases?

These same older surgeons may have lower operating rates therefore this might influence outcomes.

A good age balance strikes me as the most favourable situation.

Many older vets seem all too keen to get out of the profession at the moment so it may not matter that much to us!