What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

vetbl.locum — Tue, 11 Jan 2022 23:50:37 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/235004#235004"]Remember Mr Plenderleith?.... no, it was 28 years ago[/quote]

Sadly I do ...... but details are fuzzy

Was he running GULP at time ? Or am i confused

Rgds

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Julian Earl — Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:30:07 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/235002#235002"]e are signing to confirm that we, or a colleague, have given the vaccination, nothing more than that. [/quote]

It is signed evidence that a vaccine has been administered to a name nmal and nowadays thank goodness to an animal with a microchip implanted under the skin not just afluffy feline called \ginger!! etc..! It is used as proffhere is correctly decribed as certifying something bsaed on that individual's signature on the bottom line!! End of discussion?? Thanks.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:18:15 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/235037#235037"]There are still too many incomplete cards arriving. Some don't include any information about the vet that has done the vaccination. No address on card, no stamp.[/quote]

I fundamentally agree with this

I add the date, stickers (straight!) , write the date of the next vaccination and 2 or 4 weeks (as appropriate), the microchip date, the breed and colour.

About 1 on 20 puppies coming for a vaccination in my experience come in too early and that's because the card is totally inadequate. It's a reflection of our profession, or am I just being old fashioned

Neil

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Bob Russell — Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:21:30 GMT

I don't know why this keeps coming up again and again.

We are certifying that an animal has been vaccinated, you can call it what you like. It is a certificate.

Kennels are relying on it. often for insurance purposes and for the safety and welfare of all their charges.

Sadly there are too many unprofessional vets that don't take this responsibility adequately.

There are still too many incomplete cards arriving. Some don't include any information about the vet that has done the vaccination. No address on card, no stamp.

How can anyone hope to weed out dodgy vets or fake certificates if we have no useful information on cards?

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Clive Ansell — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 20:06:32 GMT

This discussion has been had before.

It doesn't matter what it is called; certificate, card, record, document, parchment, tablet, etc, the point is that a professional name and signature are verifying that the animal named has been vaccinated. I'm not aware that they have to be signed by an MRCVS, in fact many RVN's sign them too.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 19:49:57 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/235003#235003"]Most cards these days are 'vaccination records' NOT certificates - anyone can and does sign them.[/quote]

I might have to diagree with you there

Remember Mr Plenderleith?.... no, it was 28 years ago.

He was struck of by the RCVS for allowing an unregistered vet sign a vaccination card/record/certificate and the RCVS deemed it was his practice. The vet in question was qualified, just hadn't been registered. He won on appeal.

Neil

PS I actually wrote him a letter at the time, sympathising with him and got a lovely reply

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Sarah Keir — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 19:44:07 GMT

Most cards these days are 'vaccination records' NOT certificates - anyone can and does sign them.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Clive Ansell — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 19:31:32 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/235000#235000"]It's a vaccination certificate.........[/quote]

We are signing to confirm that we, or a colleague, have given the vaccination, nothing more than that.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 19:07:10 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/234999#234999"]

Neil Wheadon said:
I'm signing my name to this.

Why are you signing your name?

[/quote]

It's a vaccination certificate.........

Neil

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Beats — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 18:49:25 GMT

Why are you signing your name? What is the purpose of this? Could that not give the impression that you are issuing a certificate?

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

cairncross — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 14:57:14 GMT

How does that work? I wasn't aware this was a thing

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Clive Ansell — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 10:10:32 GMT

I like to be able to identify each puppy to its own fully completed vaccination card; colour, gender, breed, weight, microchip number -as much info as possible. I will also write, heart murmur, one testicle etc. It's non negotiable, I'm the MRCVS and I decide how its done.

Some breeders just want a handful of blank and signed vaccination cards, but I refuse and insist they are properly completed if I am putting my signature, name and professional reputation to it.

Where breeders want a signed letter or document to say a puppy is healthy (or not) they have to be identifiable by microchip, or I say no. Goes without saying that all findings go in the document, and I keep the language vague and non committal, such as "no heart murmur was found" or "no scrotal testes were palpable" Such a document if limited value anyway, it only states that that puppy was healthy at that time on that day, a bit like a car MOT test certificate really.

I always make comprehensive and contemperaneous clinical notes as to all my findings and what was advised or discussed. I think this is important, a new puppy owners vet could request a clinical history, and in the event of a new owner taking action against a breeder a court could access the information.

Ultimately, we are a service industry and not an enforcement agency, and have little or no control over the dodgy trade in deformed dogs. Of course, breeders can advertise puppies as "health checked", "vet checked", hip scored" etc, but it is really meaningless. Might be an area of interest to Trading Standards though, if a puppy is sold as "health checked" it implies that it is healthy of course, and selling an unhealthy puupy as health would be a legal matter.

I have no time for most breeders (There are some good ones too), and no sympathy for idiots who go out and spend £1000's on a heap of hideous genetic defects, fashion accessory puppy, without doing any research about the breed.

It also has to be said that some of the veterinary profession still condones and is complicit in the breeding of deformed dogs. We're still doing elective c-sections, surgical AI, and nipping out third eyelid glands under local on the cheap.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Clive Ansell — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 09:38:38 GMT

[quote userid="13683" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/30140/what-do-we-do-when-we-see-horrific-litters-of-puppies-with-regards-to-health/234981#234981"]if concerns about long term health recoring it on microchip records can help ensure new owner receives record[/quote]

I didn't know that could be done. Good idea.

It would be sensible if a s much info as possible could be recorded on the microchip database.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Lindsey Edwards — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 23:18:20 GMT

Breeder may not pass on vacc record, if concerns about long term health recoring it on microchip records can help ensure new owner receives record

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 23:02:21 GMT

I always write umbilical hernia on the vaccination card, even ear mites, no comeback yet. I'm signing my name to this.

Neil

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Elizabeth — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 21:09:33 GMT

Thanks, I might try that in future. I think we need to stress to future owners that a vaccination certificate is just that, and not to assume that it is a sign of a healthy pup.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Jill Butterworth — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 20:32:16 GMT

I don't recall it being especially averse, I just made a fuss about identifying each one by it's chip and markings so that she realised I considered them an important document, I wasn't just giving a handful of certificates. I also tutted

a bit and let them know the owner is missing out and give insurance and flea/worm info too.

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Elizabeth — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 15:08:15 GMT

Thanks. Out of interest, what sort of reaction did you get from the breeder?

RE: What do we do when we see horrific litters of puppies ( with regards to health)

Jill Butterworth — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 14:52:22 GMT

Really annoying. In situations like this where I was suspicious that the breeder wouldn't pass information on (I don't like breeders getting the pups vaccinated for this reason) I actually wrote my findings/recommendations on the vaccine card. They haven't actually lied on the advert, but not given the owner access to the findings, potentially, and in theory have prevented the new owner from finding out, due to data protection.