Chelidon tablets

RE: Chelidon tablets

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:41:34 GMT

Yep still use , laurabolin and B12 sometimes. More recently I really miss PLT they were really useful for a lot of arthritic animals who weren't doing so well on nsaid's.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Lesley Strong — Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:58:26 GMT

Finaject I think is what you are thinking of as an anabolic steroid. Dont mix it up with finadyne and inject it intravenously into a colicking horse.

Does NOT end well

The few times I used Stegantox for collapsed HGE/toxic pyo dogs it did seem to perk then up pretty quickly but maybe that was just fluids/antibs

RE: Chelidon tablets

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 17:12:49 GMT

[quote userid="3585" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225955#225955"]

Evelyn Barbour-Hill said:
Finadyne

That’s a large animal NSAID isn’t it? I remember using it when I was in mixed practice.

[/quote]

Damme, so 'tis. Then I can't remember the name of that anabolic steroid we used. Memory-dredging has failed.

Stegantox burst onto the scene not so long ago by my standards. It was b. expensive. We kept a couple of boxes in the fridge for those Special Cases. Used it a couple of times, without remarkable benefit as I recall. Not sure I ever got paid for it.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 11:06:07 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225959#225959"]Laurabolin, Vit B12 and betamox in same syringe.[/quote]

That was a standard combination for cats with chronic kidney disease when I started in practice, I think we just started at monthly injections. Clients used to report improvement after the injection and were keen to come back for the repeat injections, but we seem to manage very well without it now!

RE: Chelidon tablets

Bob Russell — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 10:08:13 GMT

'Strawberry milkshake'!

Laurabolin, Vit B12 and betamox in same syringe.

Older Vit B12 seemed to have a stronger red dye in it which we all know makes it work much better!

Start every two weeks then spread interval to monthly if possible.

I do still use the Laurabolin/Vit B12 bit on occasions as I believe it can be of value but EBM 0.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 09:16:58 GMT

[quote userid="3585" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225955#225955"]The other drug I remember from those times was something called “Stegantox” that was considered the height of care for septic small animal cases for few years, then it seemed to disappear completely.[/quote]

I can remember Stegantox, but I don't think I ever used it, looks like it went in October 2005:

www.thegazette.co.uk/.../B-6723-2002-22

RE: Chelidon tablets

Glen McIntosh — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:51:49 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225954#225954"]Finadyne[/quote]

That’s a large animal NSAID isn’t it? I remember using it when I was in mixed practice.

The other drug I remember from those times was something called “Stegantox” that was considered the height of care for septic small animal cases for few years, then it seemed to disappear completely.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 00:16:13 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225952#225952"]Laurabolin? [/quote]

That came a bit later. The one I was thinking of from 1972 was called Finadyne, I now recall.

Some unkind academic around 1995 said anabolic steroids were fine drugs in search of an indication.

Remember Finaplix, Michael? When I arrived in Bangor I could have made a fortune flogging them to farmers.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Glen McIntosh — Fri, 16 Oct 2020 00:14:39 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225952#225952"]Laurabolin[/quote]

Yes! That was it...

RE: Chelidon tablets

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 23:44:50 GMT

[quote userid="3585" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225926#225926"]and an anabolic steroid (the drug name escapes me but it was universally and commonly used)[/quote]

Laurabolin?

Oooh, looks like you can still get it.......

RE: Chelidon tablets

Julian Earl — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:30:57 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225927#225927"] we just didn't know what we could do about it (as, indeed, we still don't, because there isn't anything we can do).[/quote]

I've agreed in principle with your post Evelyn about the steroids and B12 etc. but I disagree strongly about nothing we can do! I had a Silver Tabby cat aged 13 when I diagnosed renal failure in him with all classic signs: inappetence, weight loss, intermittent vomiting, polydipsia and all blood tests were consistent. I think I gavwe hm antibiosis at first but more importantly put him on a pre-renal diet. The Virbac version of dried food! He loved the food and he survived on that and water for another 6-7 years. Initially he put on weight again which I cannot recall ever seeing a chronic kidney cat do apart from him! I blood tested him periodically and the urea and creatinine improved slightly but he did remain borderline anaemic for his remaining life. This cat was extremely special to meand doted on me as much as I on him. He' ait on the windowsill and when I arrvied home from work, he'd jump off and run to me jumping on my lap! He died in December 2011 aged about 18 years.

When I was in hospital for 4 months in 2012 to 2013, I was stir crazy and desperate to get home. I was thinking how good it will be for the cat to be waiting and come and greet me when I got home again. I then I awoke in the night and suddenly realised he'd died eight months ago which was awful! It was just as if he had died all over again! When my wife next visited, I related all this and said that I think I'm ready for a replacement now! Who we collected on my day of discharge in February 2013.

Thanks for reading the waffle but I had to point out that a renal diet can make a huge difference to a chronic renal cat. that is something that we can definitely do!

RE: Chelidon tablets

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 23:40:15 GMT

[quote userid="3585" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225926#225926"]I remember that for the first couple of years I was practicing, b12 and an anabolic steroid (the drug name escapes me but it was universally and commonly used) mixed in the same syringe was standard treatment for renal failure cats....[/quote]

Nandrolin.

In the winter you needed to keep the bottle in your trouser pocket (we did visits then, anyone remember those?) otherwise the liquid would solidify.

This was only a couple of years after Vanda Lucke had done the pioneering work on renal failure in cats. (Before that, it was just labelled "nephritis" and got a single shot of Propen). So we knew what was going on, we just didn't know what we could do about it (as, indeed, we still don't, because there isn't anything we can do). An anabolic steroid seemed logical enough and many of us thought of that independently.

B12 and Nandrolin didn't actually mix in the syringe, one being aqueous and the other oily, but they didn't interact either. Not like Terramycin and Parentrovite.

Anyone remember how complicated Parentrovite was? There was "standard potency" and "high potency", and they came in big glass ampoules, which you had to file on one side (the file was provided in the packet) before you could snap them open. If some b****r had lost the file it got quite embarrassing.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Glen McIntosh — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 22:54:56 GMT

I remember that for the first couple of years I was practicing, b12 and an anabolic steroid (the drug name escapes me but it was universally and commonly used) mixed in the same syringe was standard treatment for renal failure cats....

RE: Chelidon tablets

Beats — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 22:17:24 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225905#225905"]But it's funny how B12 has come full circle. Used to be given for anything that needed a 'buck up'. Then fell out of fashion - now back in again.[/quote]

Good to hear! The VMD make me feel like it is just me wanting a new bottle! I'd wondered was I now past my time as a "modern" vet...

RE: Chelidon tablets

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:27:56 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225903#225903"]Tiguvon was OK. [/quote]

It was an organophosphate ... It was awful stuff for all species. Apparently it caused toxicity issues in children?

Yes, I remember the droplix issues ... Made people very wary of spot ons for a while.

RE: Chelidon tablets

janine redman — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 20:48:11 GMT

droplix killed several of our patients and we treated a lot more for fits and seizures after it was applied months after its expiry date and sometimes in the wrong species . I remember the first case I saw, which was a cat, because it was frothing drooling and hyperexciteable and sound and touch sensitive. I went to examine it in its basket and it bit me hard with no bite inhibition or even realisation of what it was doing. I think I now have a fear of using any product past its expiry date

RE: Chelidon tablets

Rob Davis — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 15:59:14 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225899#225899"]Antirobe used to be marketed for pre and post dental work in the 90's. my first boss used to give all dentals 5 days pre op Antirobe. unsure where the science came from for that[/quote]

Sadly this hasn't totally died out....

RE: Chelidon tablets

Julian Earl — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:07:16 GMT

Neosulphentrin, that's a good one. Multiple sulphonamides, Neomycin allfor non-bacterial diarrhoea. Must have sold zillions over the counter over the years!!

As for Lugol's Iodine and wash-outs? I swapped to Povidene antiseptic solution years ago and that did not not work much better than iLugol's concoction! Prostaglandins are the best treatment I'm sure. That or oestradiol when it was permitted. Just don't overdose the latter as I did once or twice. 3-5ml was ntoo much causing inappropriate behaviour by the sex-mad cow!

RE: Chelidon tablets

Joyce Whitehead — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 12:57:50 GMT

My first boss used to tell us that if we weren’t sure we should give them “one of each”. Long acting antibiotic and steroids. Nowadays if I get a (for instance) infected cat bite I still say I’m giving a posh one of each (antibiotic and nsaid).

RE: Chelidon tablets

Peter Faulkner — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 11:12:52 GMT

[quote userid="6297" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225900#225900"]I used Osurnia for this recently, it worked really well.[/quote]

I still use Canaural to pack AGs. This ear prep recently reappeared after a long absence from our shelves. The previous drug company even provided a small attachment for the top of the bottle to make insertion into the AG duct easier. Off license of course, but we still have them.

Whilst seeing practice in Chelmsford in the early 80s, I made up some cattle drenches. They contained molasses and some volatile liquid similar to chloroform. I remember they were very popular with the farming community. It was meant to help, "The cough." Which was probably lungworm.

Pre-filled syringes were a feature of many practices I worked in. Especially the ones that ran 5 min appointments. To stand any chance of keeping up you had to take the history, examine the animal and inject the antibiotics and steroids all at the same time. If it was busy, they double booked. So you only had 2.5 mins. This also happened when you were meant to have a second vet working along side you, but he/she got taken away to work at another branch at zero notice; often at the whim of the practice owner who just fancied the evening off. I don't think the youngsters tolerate this any more. Not sure why we did to be honest.

My old boss said when he was an assistant everything was injected with Chloramphenicol and steroids. Once again, everything got better.

RE: Chelidon tablets

bob lehner — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 10:48:33 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225899#225899"]I used to know an elderly vet, long since retired, that used to draw up his syringes before he started evening consults; amox LA, dexadreson, Vit B; 2ml for cat. 5.0ml for a dog. Clients loved him and everything seemed to get better. [/quote]

Yes - the then senior partner in my practice was the recognised 'cat expert' in the area (based on nothing of course).

He favoured a whacking great shot of Dimycin (streptomycin and dihydrostreptomycin - marketed I think for use in pigs at the time) for all feline patients. Unfortunately it was highly ototxic to cats at that dose. But owners would always come back singing his praises -'That shot Mr X gave did shake poor Tiddles up for a few days - but he's a lot better now...'

But it's funny how B12 has come full circle. Used to be given for anything that needed a 'buck up'. Then fell out of fashion - now back in again.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Bob Russell — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 10:14:27 GMT

Tiguvon was OK. Droplix was the one that caused the problems if used after expiry date or after getting hot. Our local vicar nearly killed his dog using a pipette that was a year out of date and stored on the window sill!

Neosulphentrin - wonderful stuff!

Panolog for ears and anal glands.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 09:44:29 GMT

[quote userid="14693" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225887#225887"]Really miss panalog for anal gland packing[/quote]

I used Osurnia for this recently, it worked really well.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Clive Ansell — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 08:53:40 GMT

Ah, the good old days.

What ever happened to solu-medrone? used to be advocated in mega high does for acute spinal cases. Now c/s steroids out of vogue for these of course.

Antirobe used to be marketed for pre and post dental work in the 90's. my first boss used to give all dentals 5 days pre op Antirobe. unsure where the science came from for that.

I used to know an elderly vet, long since retired, that used to draw up his syringes before he started evening consults; amox LA, dexadreson, Vit B; 2ml for cat. 5.0ml for a dog. Clients loved him and everything seemed to get better.

RE: Chelidon tablets

Sarah Keir — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 07:58:13 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-clinical-discussions/29404/chelidon-tablets/225862#225862"]when every small animal patient got a shot of Streptopen and Betsolan mixed in the same syringe (which was used again and again - with the same needle of course).[/quote]

I have reliable evidence that this was still in practice as recently as 5 years ago. The person no longer works there so I cannot confirm if still the case!