Thunderstorms

RE: Thunderstorms

Sarah Keir — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:58:30 GMT

Likely need combos e.g. trazadone + gabapentin

RE: Thunderstorms

Julian Earl — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:45:37 GMT

I think that diazepam can be quite effect , far better than for example ACP. so maybe try that. It is very safe at standard dosage as well. I don't have a formulary to hand but I think it was 2mg/kg. Therefore, please check this first!.

High doses can be associated with liver necrosis apparently. IIRC.

I have never used Gabapentin for anything so no help there...

Good luck with your case.

RE: Thunderstorms

Beats — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 22:42:04 GMT

You got me interested on use of trazodone for this:

this study suggests 8mg/kg oral fine generally in healthy dog (so 100mg rather than 50mg probably reasonable), and some studies have gone up to 10mg/kg at top dose orally with dose increases.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258145979_Pharmacokinetics_bioavailability_and_hemodynamic_effects_of_trazodone_after_intravenous_and_oral_administration_of_a_single_dose_to_dogs

[In this recent study the investigators chose 5mg/kg and describe this as a "low-dose" https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339533936_Trazodone_as_a_mediator_of_transitional_stress_in_a_shelter_effects_on_illness_length_of_stay_and_outcome ]

Trazodone may have out-performed Sileo in this small German trial, or more precisely trazodone at a dose of xmg/kg outperformed Sileo at a dose of xmg/kg: https://www.vetline.de/wirksamkeit-und-nebenwirkungen-von-dexmedetomidin-und-trazodon-in-einer-prospektiven-randomisierten

Sileo shown helpful in sub-sedative doses e.g. here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313824886_Dexmedetomidine_oromucosal_gel_for_noise-associated_acute_anxiety_and_fear_in_dogs-a_randomised_double-blind_placebo-controlled_clinical_study

There is a nice recent publication summarising these trials (and other non-pharmacological advice suggestions) that I must skim further here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155878782030037X

It mentions pexion and clonidine as other potential considerations.

Overall I think I will try trazodone for this in future - I haven't hitherto used it for noise phobias, but I think it deserves a consideration, albeit with perhaps a heatlhier degree of skepticism than I might have imagined:

70% of owners in the placebo group noting a benefit, there may be more of a placebo effect than I would have imagined:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1558787817300497

RE: Thunderstorms

Beats — Fri, 07 Aug 2020 20:21:25 GMT

Those yellow 3M foam ear plugs would be my pill of choice. Roll, insert into ear canal.

https://www.sanareva.co.uk/3m-ear-plugs-pairs-foam-2-pairs-yellow.html?___store=en_gb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4ZHUwvKJ6wIVjbTtCh2mGg29EAQYAyABEgJAE_D_BwE

or be fancy and add some mutt muffs [I've no personal experience of these and care if you try googling this to show a client in the consult room...]

what doses of xanax / benzo's have you tried?

I would go 0.1mg/kg of xanax and 2mg/kg diazepam if trying these for this [along with reducing sound heard]

sileo certainly worth a consideration [cost aside] [and as a further aside can be great to sedate fear-aggressive dogs thoroughly at the clinic that you cant get near with a needle but the owner can put in mouth OK - again cost aside and if you can spare a consult room for them to sit for a while...]

Trazodone for a 16kg dog I would trypically start at 50mg daily [doubling after a couple of weeks often] - never tried it for thunderstorms, but suspect might be of help? [I'd probably give alongside Benzo if only problem with Benzo was lack of effect] I suspect you could give 100mg straight off the bat without problem, but I wouldn't personally recommend that to a client as I never have done, so on your own head be it.

I'm never clear on what dose of gabapentin to go in with for fears like this in dogs and suspect my lack of effect noted is that I underdose for this purpose.