Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 31 May 2020 16:01:01 GMT

[quote userid="7232" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223174"]I would argue that if something can be dealt with quickly, and relatively easily and is effective 9/10 times then it IS fine. As long as 1/10 times the problem is easily addressed. [/quote]

Unfortunately often it wasn't ok for the 1/10. For example, 9/10 may keep their hatchling tortoise on sand or wood chips, but the 1/10 that blocks usually dies.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Mark Holmes — Sun, 31 May 2020 15:00:47 GMT

I would argue that if something can be dealt with quickly, and relatively easily and is effective 9/10 times then it IS fine. As long as 1/10 times the problem is easily addressed.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Anthony Todd — Sun, 31 May 2020 13:33:02 GMT

Nobody seems to medically or logically disagree with waiting til anoestrus via the date of the last or next season so why not wait, avoid the possible problems and the cost of Galastop?? [Plus a consult??]

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 31 May 2020 12:15:57 GMT

That's what I was getting at...the referral guys will be seeing the ones with the problems so their opinion is valid, as long as there is an acknowledgement that it may not be common.

I compare to the many many exotics owners who said 'but my tortoise/beardie/snake/parrot has been ok so therefore my opinion and method are fine. 9/10 may be ok...but we always saw the one that wasn't.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Dinu Catilina — Sun, 31 May 2020 11:50:57 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223149"]I do love repro expert lectures, bless em. Probably the clinicians that spay the least number of bitches out of anyone. [/quote]

They certainly spay more than the other lecturers.

Some of the responses on this topic and some of the responses on the caesarian topic reminds me of some responses years back on pain relief: "I did so many this way, never had a problem. So obviously, the problem doesn't exist"

Dogma works both ways.

Many cases that do get milk after neutering don't come back. Some clients accept it as normal and will not report it and maybe (my suspicion and I may be wrong) in charity is even less reported. But if you have fussy clients that expect high quality service (I'm saying service not medical care before everyone jumps on me) they will be back with every little annoying thing.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 31 May 2020 06:33:47 GMT

Agreed. Also spayed bitches at all stages in the cycle, including oestrous. Never knowingly had any issues.

I guess the referral guys see the rare cases that do have issues?

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Mark Holmes — Sat, 30 May 2020 22:40:41 GMT

I agree. I have spayed bitched from anoestrus, to mid oestrus to mid pregnancy. No problems that galastop won’t fix. I routinely just spay bitches with a hyperplastic vaginal prolapse and suture proplapse inplace for a couple of days whilst the swelling resolves. There is really no problem but I’d only do the above if there is a reason to do it.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

David Mills — Sat, 30 May 2020 21:11:23 GMT

I do love repro expert lectures, bless em. Probably the clinicians that spay the least number of bitches out of anyone.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Jill Butterworth — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:24:00 GMT

I think the cost of Galastop is an issue to some clients.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:09:18 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223136"]my list of vet myths we need to beat out of the folklore[/quote]

Maybe, but I certainly had one bitch that lactated for weeks and weeks and I don't think there were any drugs back them that helped?

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:04:49 GMT

Honestly, this joins my list of vet myths we need to beat out of the folklore. I've spayed lots of bitches at the 'wrong' stage of their cycle and no issues. If it happens you can treat it.

Just get on and get her spayed.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 30 May 2020 12:08:06 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223134"]We avoid spaying them in this period [/quote]

I think our reasoning was that oestrus established a timeline which most owners recognised and remembered er, and we picked up the odd pregnancy prior to spay too.....

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 30 May 2020 12:00:10 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223133"]But if it did, presumably 5-10days worth of cabergoline would end things anyway?[/quote]

Most likely it will. We avoid spaying them in this period just to avoid all the hassle of seeing them back etc but if necessary I would spay them without a doubt.

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Beats — Sat, 30 May 2020 11:38:50 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried/223132"]

My generation understood that spaying during a FP prolonged the FP for a long time, so we avoided this.

Is that still the case?

[/quote]

I don't know Anthony, but interesting question!

I'm not sure why it would, but I don't think I understand the bitch's repro cycle as well as I maybe should...

But if it did, presumably 5-10days worth of cabergoline would end things anyway?

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 30 May 2020 11:34:44 GMT

My generation understood that spaying during a FP prolonged the FP for a long time, so we avoided this.

Is that still the case?

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Beats — Sat, 30 May 2020 10:27:26 GMT

Thanks Dinu!

Presumably this is not a particularly big problem in that can be given cabergoline for 5 to 10 days if is affecting the bitch/owner badly?

Presumably further by extrapolation, if they are currently in a pseudopregnancy with milk present, then this is not a deterrent to spaying as progesterone has already dropped?

(I've never been too fussy on when spay bitches, probably because I've never understood this properly before!)

RE: Inducing pseudopregnancy by spaying in progesterone phase - should I be worried?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 30 May 2020 09:25:18 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/f/misc-case-discussions/29132/inducing-pseudopregnancy-by-spaying-in-progesterone-phase---should-i-be-worried"]Is it that spaying can result in a more dramatic pseudopregnancy than would otherwise have occurred as the progesterone level dropped more slowly?[/quote]

This is my understanding. You can still have lactation at the end of the luteal phase in a nonpregnant bitch but at least my observation is that in some bitches the consequences are quite dramatic if neutered while progesterone is high. But it seems to be inconsistent and many of the bitches I neutered in shelters (unknown where they were in their cycle) were absolutely fine. Or maybe we didn't check them well enough post surgery.