Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Stephen Ashman — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:13:11 GMT

I thought the answer would have been yes; although not so succinct.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:39:38 GMT

Hanna

If he had replied, I doubt if you would have understood the answer !!!!

Wynne

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:46:11 GMT

and he never replied to my question even after i asked it twice...

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

beldather — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:41:32 GMT

He has habit of getting suspended form web based vet discussions, wonder why.

Blair

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Stephen Ashman — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:33:40 GMT

It sounded like he wasn't too fond of being here anyway!

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

sophia guymer — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:17:18 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I have suspended Skepvet's account.[/quote]

THANK YOU!!!!

it was all getting a bit much!

Sophia

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:17:27 GMT

With regret, I have suspended Skepvet's account.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:08:51 GMT

Dear God, I'm losing the will to live.

Yes, I was hoping to provoke you into giving a little more though to the syntax of your posts. That's all.

[quote user="The SkepVet"]If Arlo does not like how you voted he will tell everyone how you voted.[/quote]

Where do you get this from? I can't reveal how someone rated a post, because I have no way of knowing that myself.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:06:26 GMT

Ian

a) I can understand you

b) I agree with you

Regards

Wynne

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:44:52 GMT

Sometimes, a rhetorical question is asked only as a thought provoking gesture or a way to stimulate discussion. This also occurs frequently during debates, especially political debates. For example, “How corrupt is the government?” is a rhetorical question. This question does not really have a concrete or measurable answer; the answer is opinion based. Yet, such questions are quite capable of inspiring thought and further debate.

Arlo, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt again and assume your "rhetorical question", without a question mark, was posted only as a thought provoking gesture or a way to stimulate discussion that has no mearurable answer. Are you now trying to change the subject again to something like "Should Art be toast?" If so please do. That should be fun. But I believe that I have a ethical resposibility as a veterinarians to tell vets who post here that although Arlo promotes the star rating that should allows us to rate a post annoumously from one star to five, If Arlo does not like how you voted he will tell everyone how you voted. So If you vote for no toast you could be the next one for the toaster.

Art Malernee dvm

The SkepVet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Ian Mostyn — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:55:06 GMT

Going back to the original point (as my head is hurting with the last 2 pages!), the RCVS would term negligence as failure to do something that a reasonable vet would do. I would class Vit K prophylaxis to a dog with known rodenticide ingestion a reasonable step and so failure to do so would be negligence. Failing to monitor clotting times inthe abscence of vit k therapy would also be negligence but I can see an argument for vit k OR monitoring - just do one or other with conviction.

Ian

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:48:28 GMT

To be precise, it was a rhetorical question. But that's not the point. The point is that the meaning of my sentence was clear, whereas some of your posts are really very difficult to read / understand.

You are absolutely right: everyone, myself included, makes the occasional mistake. I agree that pointing out missing punctuation or a typo outside a need for clarification, makes the critic look like a pompous ass.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:08:34 GMT

I am confused as well. Art, grammatical English would help your readers to understand you>>>>

Can I suggest that you make your posts easier for others to understand by using shorter sentences.>>>>

I am confused as well Wynne

. Arlo, is that a question you are asking me about using shorter sentences? If so are you promoting my English is bad at the same time you are failing to put a question mark after your own sentence? A typo or grammar flame does not advance the points you are trying to make and pretty much relegates you to my "do not bother trying to discuss this topic with this person any more" category on this list. You will find that even the most literate / erudite among the regulars here occasionally mis type something and/or miss other minor errors in proofing / editing. This is, after all, a relatively informal forum.Calling such gaffes to their attention, outside of a genuine need to clarify, is unbecoming and makes you look like a pompous ass. Which I will give Arlo and Wynne the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not.

Art Maleree dvm

The SkepVet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:13:06 GMT

I am confused as well. Art, grammatical English would help your readers to understand you

Wynne

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:01:10 GMT

[quote user="The SkepVet"]The truth is no one know what arlo believes even when arlo tells us.[/quote]

Who knows what anyone really believes, regardless of whether they use the written or spoken word to tell us? Ultimately, it's about trust.

Art, you obviously don't have any trust in my ability to split a discussion into two without materially changing what it was you said. This despite the fact that I have done it in such a way that you are able to correct ANYTHING (the subject title, or the posts), that I have transferred into this thread.

[quote user="The SkepVet"]What we can know in this group is our words.[/quote]

Indeed, and unfortunately I am having great difficulty in understanding yours. Nor does it seem that I am entirely alone.

Art, I believe in what I am trying to achieve here (i.e. building the largest callaborative online community for vets). Anything else I believe is largely irrelevant.

I genuinely worry that if new members arrive here to find the forums populated by people that do not articulate their thoughts in a way that others can understand easily, they will soon leave. In the same way, I worried that new members would find it deeply offputting to find the whole site dominated by raw-bloody-meaty-bones.

Can I suggest that you make your posts easier for others to understand by using shorter sentences. I genuinely think that will help. For example, you seem to be making 4 different points in this sentence:

[quote user="The SkepVet"] I am not sure he is confused about what I wrote either but If Arlo would allow me to go back and change what was written without prospectively agreeing on how to make the changes do you think that would help you in any confusion you have?[/quote]

At the end of it, I'm lost! If you made 4 separate points, it would make it easier for me to understand, and easier to respond to specific points you are making.

It would also help if you used the red 'quote' button when replying to posts. Highlight text you want to quote with your mouse, press quote and it will automatically add it to your post in a way that makes it easier for others to read.

If you are unwilling to try and make your posts easier to understand, then I regret that I will suspend your ability to post in the forums until such time as we have more members.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:42:25 GMT

I'm not sure it was simply the spelling he was confused over however!>>>>

I am not sure he is confused about what I wrote either but If Arlo would allow me to go back and change what was written without prospectively agreeing on how to make the changes do you think that would help you in any confusion you have? Changing what we write is like going back the next day and changing yesterdays medical records. I posted a thread on the aol vet-vet group that vets in the group said they were confused about. When I checked the thread the next day the title I had given the thread had been changed to "their coming to take me away" . Funny, but it did not help convince me the vets posting on the thread were really confused and made me "believe" that they were bullys when they only might have been joking. Now if the raw meat vet that arlo puts in a corner tells me he is confused because of the way our minds work i believe I would be more likely to believe him then if arlo said it. The truth is no one know what arlo believes even when arlo tells us. What we can know in this group is our words.

Art Malernee dvm

The SkepVet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:12 GMT

And you still haven't replied to my post - would you recommend owners of a dog that had known anti-coagulant ingestion contact their vet?.>>>>>

Are you making the claim you ask me a question about owners contacting their vet in a previous post? If so could I please see some evidence of that claim so I can see if your posting staw man attacks?

art malernee dvm

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Hanna Bennett — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:23:58 GMT

I would point out that my comments were made after the thread had been transferred so there was no editting involved in the post of yours that i commented on. And you still haven't replied to my post - would you recommend owners of a dog that had known anti-coagulant ingestion contact their vet?.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Mark Frost — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:02:22 GMT

[quote user="The SkepVet"]

uh?>>>

Arlo, let me try to esplain. Did you realize that I spelled the word thread wrong? If I could go back and change the word tread to thread without anyones ok would you be ok with that after you posted "uh"?

Art Malernee dvm

The SkepVet

[/quote]

You could easily do that.. it was your post. The original text would remain in Arlo's post as a quote meaning his post would not lose relevance. I'm not sure it was simply the spelling he was confused over however!

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:09:59 GMT

uh?>>>

Art Malernee dvm

The SkepVet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:31:17 GMT

[quote user="The SkepVet"]

I believe this tread is part of an old tread that you edited and changed the subject line. You apparently believe its a "new thread". We both look at and read the same words and say we believe we see something different. If you did believe it was an old thread that you edited and changed the subject line, can you see why I would not want to change the subject line? [/quote]

uh?

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:04:07 GMT

We have not been told any of the details of the case whatsoever>>>

If so I can try to repost them.

art malernee dvm

the skepvet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:36:21 GMT

If you don't like the subject line I gave the new thread, you are most welcome to change it!>>

art malernee dvm

the skepvet

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:02:25 GMT

I have gone back and carefully read what Dr Malernee wrote about the editor altering the thread and altering the words of posts. "Accusing me of tampering with your words" seems a pretty fair summary of it, to an English English speaker. I have no idea if "accusing" and "tampering" have different meanings in US English.

This whole debate seems to be based on a single case in Florida, USA. We have not been told any of the details of the case whatsoever, and in any case because of the different legal systems the outcome in this country could not have been quite the same. If anybody wants to debate the merits of that particular case, let's have all the details and the transcript of the trial please. I'm not sure why anyone would want to debate it on this UK-based forum though.

Some fair arguments in favour of prophylactic oral vitamin K in cases of anticoagulant rodenticide ingestion have been presented. It's plain to me that you couldn't ethically prove that it is always helpful, as that would involve dosing a large number of dogs with various quantities of rodenticide and then giving vitamin K to some and not others.

Re: Vit K1 for rodenticide exposure

The SkepVet — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:33:11 GMT

I knew you'd come back and start accusing me of tampering with your words, Art.>>>

You might have believed that I would come back and write something but because of the way our minds work your mind replaced what I wrote with the word tampering. That word came from your mind not mine. You are trying to put words in my mouth. It is your minds summary of what I said nolt what I wrote. If you want to quote me and then deny my quote is true please do. That should be fun but i am skeptical you will want to do that.

art malernee dvm

the skepvet