E. coli in cats

RE: E. coli in cats

Kate Richardson — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 14:06:29 GMT

[quote user="Andreas Ege"]Not quite contraindicated, and it's still licensed for cats[/quote]

Well yes, strictly speaking, but as you say, [quote user="Andreas Ege"]I'd need VERY good reason to use in cats as there are enough alternatives[/quote] I wouldn't take the risk.

RE: E. coli in cats

Rob Loxley — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 13:57:32 GMT

[quote user="Andreas Ege"] problems with blindness came after they upped the dose[/quote] and people picking up the 150mg tablets in error, rather than the 15mg. The oral solution should help dosing accuracy in cats, but again not sure Baytril is the answer here

RE: E. coli in cats

Andreas Ege — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:18:40 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]because baytril is contraindicated in cats (blindness reported [/quote]

Not quite contraindicated, and it's still licensed for cats, but these days I'd need very good reason to use in cats as there are enough alternatives. As long as you stick to the normal dosage (5mg/kg) the risk of blindness is pretty much negligible. Otherwise most older cats that needed antibiotics in Germany would be blind. (Baytril and dexa used to be one of the main treatments for cats 12+ years back.) ;-)

The problems with blindness came after they upped the dose, though i.v. use seems to increase the risk at the normal dose as well. Not that I've ever seen a problem with i.v. use at 5mg/kg.

RE: E. coli in cats

Sarah Keir — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 12:30:40 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Yes , there is a lot of interest in the gut microbiome currently and the use of antibiotics obviously has potential to wipe out the normal population; faecal transplants an interesting area- I believe Sarah Keir knows more about this?

[/quote]

Not an expert on this, just interested and was a good proportion of our SAMSoc autumn meeting last week. Poo transplants are fascinating!

RE: E. coli in cats

Bob Russell — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 11:55:01 GMT

Are beta haemolytic E coli that pathogenic in the gut of an otherwise healthy animal?

(Corrected E coli bit an should have added automatically that pathogenic!)

RE: E. coli in cats

Kate Richardson — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 11:22:58 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Anyway aside from that- there are very few diarrhoea cases in kittens (or any cat) that need antibiotics. Most are diet or viral, occasionally parasitic.[/quote]

Isn't there a school of thought now that giving antibiotics to kittens with diarrhoea is almost contraindicated where it causes issues long term?

Neil

[/quote]

RE: E. coli in cats

Kate Richardson — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 11:20:06 GMT

Hannah Parker-Lobban well done for questioning it

RE: E. coli in cats

Hannah Parker-Lobban — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 11:07:22 GMT

Good question. I honestly don’t know why baytril was used. The lab said it needed antibiotics because it was a beta haemolytic strain and would cause haemolysis. I was not convinced by this hence my post.

RE: E. coli in cats

Bob Russell — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:51:08 GMT

Did the lab say it needed treatment or it needed treating with antibiotics?

I agree it should be treated but because it has diarrhoea not because it has E coli.

I hark on ad nauseam about giardia but that should probably have been picked up by the lab if they did microscopy.

Why go for Baytril anyway? There are far safer antibiotics that would have been suitable if the vet felt they were needed.

RE: E. coli in cats

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:41:47 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Anyway aside from that- there are very few diarrhoea cases in kittens (or any cat) that need antibiotics. Most are diet or viral, occasionally parasitic.[/quote]

Isn't there a school of thought now that giving antibiotics to kittens with diarrhoea is almost contraindicated where it causes issues long term?

Neil

RE: E. coli in cats

Hannah Parker-Lobban — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:17:03 GMT

Thank you all. The kitten was still bright as a button with nothing else going on except the diarrhoea. We started a diet trial.

RE: E. coli in cats

Julie Innes — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 09:52:32 GMT

Like the others- first thought was "e.coli- so what?" Second was "baytril in young kitten?!"

This is exactly what I mean about clients expectations. It is easy to get brow-beaten into what google and the million cat forums have told them you should, but sometimes we need to resist!

Slightly off topic, but I am a member of a corgi FB group (as I have one, and like looking at cute photos ). I never answer anything veterinary related, but tried to sit on my hands last night as everyone made crazy diagnoses, told the person that vets know nothing about endocrine disorders, were amazed and horrified that vet hadn't heard of "black skin/ pseudo-Cushings" (I haven't!- is it a real thing??!) and suggested she go to another vet and lie and say she had never been to a vet . This after what sounded like a reasonable work-up- been tested for cushings/ hypothyroidism etc. I suggested she go back and speak to her vet and explain her concerns (couldn't help it!!!) and was duly, and as expected, shot down in flames!

RE: E. coli in cats

Kate Richardson — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:15:41 GMT

Hi Hannah

Err e.coli in poo- kind of expected. Your colleague has behaved irresponsibly in my opinion. A) because antibiotics are not indicated and b) because baytril is contraindicated in cats (blindness reported and c) you didn't send the sample and they are acting on an unsubstantiated sample and report. If this kitten develops blindness due to this treatment, they are potentially on very dodgy ground in my opinion.

Anyway aside from that- there are very few diarrhoea cases in kittens (or any cat) that need antibiotics. Most are diet or viral, occasionally parasitic. Start with diet- hills i/d or RC sensitivity initially. Panacur 5 days a good idea.

This lab needs reporting or checking out further if clients can send samples independently. I would personally refuse to dish out treatment based on this and so should you. Stand fast and refuse to give more antibiotics, especially a fluoroquinolone!!! If the client doesn't like this, tough. Your MRCVS is far more important. The lab's view is worth not a lot to be honest based on what you have said so far.

Sorry it's probably too late for this advice now but hopefully you have made the right call- PM if you want to

RE: E. coli in cats

Hannah Parker-Lobban — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:43:36 GMT

Thank you

RE: E. coli in cats

Sarah Keir — Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:26:04 GMT

Hannah,

you have posted this in the general VetSurgeon section of this website. Are you a member of SAMSoc? If you are then under the community tab, you can follow the link to the SAMSoc section. If you are not a member then I can post the question for you and let you know the replies.

A fluoroquinlone fro diarrhoea, a growing animal and Baytril in a cat. Yikes! Someone is brave!