Crush cages

RE: Crush cages

vetbl.locum — Sat, 21 Sep 2019 09:34:51 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="vetbl.locum"]Perhaps stressful and unpleasant would be better adjectives[/quote]

I would wager less so than using gloves and wrapping in towels, if used carefully and responsibly.

[/quote]

That is probably true

Don't like the gloves usually

So if towel fails it is the cage

Rgds

RE: Crush cages

Clive Ansell — Sat, 21 Sep 2019 09:28:52 GMT

[quote user="vetbl.locum"]Perhaps stressful and unpleasant would be better adjectives[/quote]

I would wager less so than using gloves and wrapping in towels, if used carefully and responsibly.

RE: Crush cages

vetbl.locum — Sat, 21 Sep 2019 09:12:03 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="vetbl.locum"]I agree they are cruel and barbaric[/quote]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Some have described them as cruel or barbaric, but I cannot see how at all.[/quote]

How are they cruel or barbaric? How are they much worse than two people squashing cat down in a mass of blanket? Why would anyone use a crush cage if they don't need to?

[/quote]

Sorry unthinking use of language

Perhaps stressful and unpleasant would be better adjectives

RE: Crush cages

Bob Russell — Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:24:41 GMT

We are seeing a stream of really freaked out dogs from one practice (not our neighbour!!) and much of the problem seems to be vets rushing to get through the day.

It takes a few minutes to screw up a pets confidence and behaviour, sometimes years to get them back!

Take your time (get them back if you are too pushed for time) and you should be able to sort out the timid from the psychopaths!

RE: Crush cages

Kate Richardson — Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:53:48 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I'm not putting pet cats in them! That's not something I've ever seen happen. I'm yet to hear any suggestion of practices misusing them.[/quote]

Neither have I fortunately. But with the wrong approach, its quite easy to turn a cat who is frightened into fight mode, which may then lead to the vet deciding to use a crush cage, when a gentle, slow, steady, possibly minimalist approach may have kept that cat calm enough to enable you to do your job.

RE: Crush cages

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 20 Sep 2019 07:57:50 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Mainly to do with strength of restraint. The cat needs to be restrained, not ironed! [/quote]

The cat needs to be very firmly squeezed for the 5 seconds it takes to give the injection, then immediately released. If it can move you're not holding it tight enough and you risk injury to the vet and the cat.

[/quote]

I think we're both saying the same thing here - all I mean to say is that I have seen cats that can't move with folks applying every last ounce of muscle power they can when they don't necessarily need to. When you have a cat in the crush cage that can't move from the restraint, you don't pull unnecessarily harder, do you? Some folks do.

(that said, singlehanded is doable but you get more control with one hand on each arm of the movable wall!)

RE: Crush cages

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 20 Sep 2019 00:50:40 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]By using them when not necessary and using them excessively[/quote]

I'm not putting pet cats in them! That's not something I've ever seen happen. I'm yet to hear any suggestion of practices misusing them.

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I think I must not be brutal enough, as whenever I use crush cages they seem to manage to wriggle[/quote]

Yes, not firm enough. Generally I will squeeze the cat and let an assistant inject. You can put the crush cage on the floor, place a foot on the top, and manage single handed. It's basically squeeze as hard as you can for as short a time as possible. Should be absolutely no wriggling.

RE: Crush cages

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 20 Sep 2019 00:35:52 GMT

[quote user="vetbl.locum"]I agree they are cruel and barbaric[/quote]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Some have described them as cruel or barbaric, but I cannot see how at all.[/quote]

How are they cruel or barbaric? How are they much worse than two people squashing cat down in a mass of blanket? Why would anyone use a crush cage if they don't need to?

RE: Crush cages

Kate Richardson — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:39:23 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

How is anyone 'abusing' crush cages?

[/quote]

By using them when not necessary and using them excessively when learning some cattitude might be a better approach.

[/quote]

Given the potential seriousness of cat inflicted bite and scratch wounds, along with an overriding priority to keep staff safe it is surely better to be safe rather than sorry, and use a crush cage if in doubt?

[/quote]

I agree. I'm just suggesting that unless they are dealing with a very high volume of feral cats, if someone is using crush cages on a very regular basis, then they might want to think about reassessing their cat handling skills.

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]it is sometimes difficult as locum; I often don't know the cat, and I may be working with nurses I don't know, and have no idea how good or not they are at handling difficult cats.[/quote]

Not knowing the cat shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference- we all see cats we have never seen before, nothing to do with being a locum. However, the point about the nurses is a good one, and worth asking if they are comfortable and confident with difficult cats or if there is a cat whisperer nurse in the clinic.

RE: Crush cages

Anthony Todd — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:55:38 GMT

No one mentions the usual faff [if you're lucky] in getting this fractious? cat out of the zipped up whatever into a crush-cage so I don't think anyone uses it unless they really have to.

PS Has anyone had an inexperienced staff member, just trying to help, and reaching out to stroke the sharp end of a difficult cat......

RE: Crush cages

Clive Ansell — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:45:33 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

How is anyone 'abusing' crush cages?

[/quote]

By using them when not necessary and using them excessively when learning some cattitude might be a better approach.

[/quote]

it is sometimes difficult as locum; I often don't know the cat, and I may be working with nurses I don't know, and have no idea how good or not they are at handling difficult cats.

RE: Crush cages

Anthony Todd — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 10:14:38 GMT

All you need is adequate restraint which is sometimes just a stroke. sometimes a firm crush.

Remember the cat show judge who lost a finger!

I wouldn't like to be in court discussing the damages for a promising violnist, part time as a vet nurse, now without her career, because the vet was "cat friendly".

RE: Crush cages

Julie Innes — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:10:52 GMT

I think I must not be brutal enough, as whenever I use crush cages they seem to manage to wriggle, and I always feel I'm injecting intra cat (or into thin air!) I find wire basket, several towels with cat front end buried, nurse with gauntlets holding down and I can clearly see lumbar muscles for IM injection. At least that way I know the injection is in! but I guess we all have our preferences!

RE: Crush cages

Jill Butterworth — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 07:23:43 GMT

I use latex gloves when handling difficult cats as I find gauntlets clumsy, it's amazing how the gloves can be shredded but your hands are (mostly) fine underneath.

RE: Crush cages

Kate Richardson — Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:59:01 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

How is anyone 'abusing' crush cages?

[/quote]

By using them when not necessary and using them excessively when learning some cattitude might be a better approach.

RE: Crush cages

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 23:16:31 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Mainly to do with strength of restraint. The cat needs to be restrained, not ironed! [/quote]

RE: Crush cages

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 23:13:22 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

How is anyone 'abusing' crush cages? I think they are an essential bit of kit in any practice.

[/quote]

Mainly to do with strength of restraint. The cat needs to be restrained, not ironed!

RE: Crush cages

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 21:45:33 GMT

How is anyone 'abusing' crush cages? I think they are an essential bit of kit in any practice.

RE: Crush cages

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:49:19 GMT

Yes, what everyone else said. There are cats I need them for, very few, but some can't be handled with towels/blankets. I try to be very fast and then cover cage and leave in a quiet place. It's a safety issue really with the absolute wicked ones. Others are covered with a blanket, I don't like gloves at all, cant get a grip with them. And I agree with gabapentin upfront if possible, a hundred times better to have them spaced out than wrestling them.

RE: Crush cages

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:51:26 GMT

We rarely use them for domestic cats, but being rural see quite a lot of ferals who are completely unhandled. We have a good technique of letting them into the crush cage from cat trap without touching, then quick slide of cage, jab and then neuter. They seem less stressed than if we tried to handle them.

RE: Crush cages

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:11:40 GMT

Certainly crush cages have their uses. Are they abused by people who were never taught to use them correctly or use them too aggressively? Yes, they are.

Do they have a place in practice? Yes, I believe so - using appropriate safe restraining, with the injection is given, and the bars released immediately so cat can have space again.

That said, I have found that cats, when approached carefully and respectfully (fear free or gentle handling or whatever you like) you can many times handle the cat enough that the crush cage isn't needed.

For the incorrigible feral cat? Nope, I'm not that good! :)

RE: Crush cages

Kate Richardson — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:07:56 GMT

I rarely use and don't like them, but would do so a completely unhandlebale cat as I think there is not going to be any minimal stress way of sedating and it is quicker, less traumatic and far safer than a towel in these cats. In, crush, inject, release crush, cover with towel and put somewhere quiet. I don't like it, but in my opinion the best option for these cats.

However, these days I would now consider trying to give the cat some gabapentin first and see if makes cat handleable, obviously it would have to go in food, but now there are flavoured liquid forms available, it may be possible.

I also like IM alfaxan for these as well as very effective at fairly low doses.

RE: Crush cages

Lindsey Edwards — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:05:38 GMT

I like the crush cage with ONE openable side and top - most cats can be steered into one from another cage or corner this way (without having to flip cage and close lid against manic cat!). Openable floor in addition...accident waiting to happen!

RE: Crush cages

Stephen Pointing — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:02:08 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]What do folk generally think about the use of crush cages for cats?[/quote] Like you I think they can be useful when used properly. I'm usually only needing to give a very small quantity of sedative so any available muscle mass will suffice. After the injection has been given we usually cover the crush cage with a towel and leave the cat in a quiet place while the sedative is taking effect. I really don't think this is any more unkind to the cat than using strong restraint with gauntlets and towels etc

RE: Crush cages

vetbl.locum — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:00:39 GMT

I agree they are cruel and barbaric but USE them as it is a safety issue!

Towels are ok for some but our gloves are generally too stiff to grip cat

They are far from ideal but preferred option to avoid human injury which is paramount to me

Can be fun getting mad cat into them

Rgds