Cat friendly or not so friendly

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

vs0u — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 20:45:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]I'm all for taking time with cats. If people charge properly and it doesn't f over your colleagues whilst you're spending half an hour with a cat[/quote]

It's actually quicker if the cat is calm though - everything takes much longer with a stressed out animal. Needing half an hour implies that something has gone wrong!

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:37:30 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Intranasals were about the most dangerous thing I ever did, even soft labs hated it![/quote]

I find that the majority of dogs tolerate intranasals very well, it does help that the kennel cough vaccines are less volume than they used to be, but as long as it's at room temperature and trickled in slowly I rarely have a problem, i also cover their eyes with my left hand so they don't see it coming, I think just the way your hand approaches them to do it can be intimidating and they react less if they don't see it coming.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Anthony Todd — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:16:13 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]Nail clipping, anal sac emptying and intra nasals also seem to put dogs off![/quote]

Nail clippinng is only objected to by dogs, or cats that have once been hurt, even slightly. They never ever forget, and they object violently and loudly for ever more, some dogs start whining as they go onto the exam table....

[wasn't there something on here about an animal being "squashed on the table" to have it's nails cut?]

PS Owners think a nail trim [including canaries] is mandatory.... canary nails in the wild are just as long as the longest in a cage!

The trick is NOT to use the guillotine type, 'cos you get no clue until there is blood and/or pain, and to squeeze the clipper type slowly and gradually and stop at the slightest limb withdrawal and move the site back a bit.

I used to cringe when I saw some of the owner demanded short nails with the red pulp centres, even at the dog track.

Anal gland expression and or packing was never painful unless there was an abscess and even then sometimes not preventative of an empty or packing, IMHE.

Intranasals were about the most dangerous thing I ever did, even soft labs hated it!

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Kate Richardson — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:20:33 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="David Mills"]Just not convinced on any of it. [/quote]

That doesn't really matter though does it?

Put another way, what harm can be done to anyone or anything by being cat friendly?

[/quote]

Well, yes it does. See my post on the scuffing thread.

I'm all for taking time with cats. If people charge properly and it doesn't f over your colleagues whilst you're spending half an hour with a cat. I've seen it, many times.

It would be interesting, as said, to actually see how much these provisions work to reduce stress in cats rather than this self satisfied cooing over no scuffing etc etc

[/quote]

I'm glad you are happy to take time with cats David, and can appreciate it can work. I can personally say that my experience is that it does work, and now being in a cat only clinic where the ethos is throughout, is that yes it works. However I think it is very difficult to achieve this in a mixed multi vet practice unless everyone gets on board (which I accept is difficult as vets generally don't like being told they are doing it wrong even if it is put in a way that suggests there is a better way)

I can promise you I'm not a cooey type of person, I am a realist. It can be achieved by some very simple things in a 'normal' consultation time, yes 15 minutes is better than 10, but I appreciate not everyone has that luxury- see the scruffing thread and I quote myself: "And no David, I don’t have routine 30 minute consultations. 15 is plenty. A few minutes to allow the cat to assess its surroundings, come out of the box of its own accord and have a wander round if it will, whilst I take the history and quietly observe the cat from a distance, then examine the cat (which lets face it in many cats can take as little as 2-3 minutes ) then treat/advise. If I’m unable to do what I would like to do in that time (which is rare, but would include cats needing bloods or urine samples or just more time to examine further), we generally try to admit the cat for a bit- owners much prefer this to rebooking another appointment ".

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

David Mills — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 19:19:44 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="David Mills"]Just not convinced on any of it. [/quote]

That doesn't really matter though does it?

Put another way, what harm can be done to anyone or anything by being cat friendly?

[/quote]

Well, yes it does. See my post on the scuffing thread.

I'm all for taking time with cats. If people charge properly and it doesn't f over your colleagues whilst you're spending half an hour with a cat. I've seen it, many times.

It would be interesting, as said, to actually see how much these provisions work to reduce stress in cats rather than this self satisfied cooing over no scuffing etc etc

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Kate Richardson — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 18:31:32 GMT

Thanks for all replies, had heard some not so good reports of 'cat friendly practices' being far from it so am really encouraged that things aren't all bad! and that things are improving, albeit slowly, for cats, so well done all of you, you have my respect (whether that means anything or not!). Sadly discouraged by the cat scruffing thread though

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I dislike the tag, "cat-friendly" [/quote]

Its all about mindset- making people think about the way they handle cats and hopefully improving on what I would class bad practice given what we now know. What do you suggest they call it? Cat considerate? But, my concern with the accreditation is that it is all about the facilities (which if you are going to invest in the right cages etc etc means you are probably already thinking cat) but there is no way of actually measuring the 'cattitude' and actual handling within which, in my mind, is the MOST important factor in being cat friendly

If we could get back to the OP though please, still keen to hear good and bad experiences

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Minnie — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:27:43 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]

I think any accreditation (cat-friendly, rabbit-friendly, Investors in People or even the practice standard scheme) is only as good as the culture in the practice. Many places I have experienced use these as a box-ticking, 'look aren't we good' exercises and in some cases, the reality is as far away as possible from the original aims of the schemes. It all depends on the culture of the practice at all levels.

[/quote]

Agreed. Two of the worst practices I have ever worked for were 'Investors in People'. Not entirely sure what their 'investment' was or how they achieved that particular accreditation but it didn't reflect their reputation as employers as staff started and left at warp speed, sometimes within the same week

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:26:38 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Just not convinced on any of it. [/quote]

That doesn't really matter though does it?

Put another way, what harm can be done to anyone or anything by being cat friendly?

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Beats — Fri, 13 Sep 2019 09:50:44 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]cortisol level in saliva[/quote]

or heart rate?

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

David Mills — Fri, 13 Sep 2019 00:57:59 GMT

Just not convinced on any of it.

Would be quite an easy study to test, say cortisol level in saliva in cats before transport, at arrival, then following waiting, then following intervention.

To have these recommendations and "levels" without any hard evidence seems at best dogmatic and at worst pretty bloody evangelical.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:40:58 GMT

A trip to the vets is inherently stressful ... that's a given.

Being in a waiting room with dogs peering into your basket, other cats staring at you, or being in the middle of the floor in a wire basket surrounded by legs are all going to increase this stress.

I don't think being 'cat friendly' is about removing the stress, just minimising it! It can make a massive difference.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Rob Loxley — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 08:54:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]My view is that a lot of the stress for cats is in the journey to and from the vet.[/quote]

And a cat-friendly practice I expect would be proactively helping and guiding the clients to make this less stressful

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Christina Smith — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 20:50:03 GMT

Nail clipping, anal sac emptying and intra nasals also seem to put dogs off!

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Christina Smith — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 20:41:12 GMT

Some cats are chilled by dogs and severely wound up by other cats. Feliway seems to help them. Other cats (indoor??) are freaked out by dogs especially dog noise. Rabbit also are accustomed or not. I wonder how many cats/rabbits are freaked out by humans. Dogs seem to be increasingly averse to human contact. Maybe proportional to the amount of grooming they need and shar pros

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Sara Ramsey — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 17:50:42 GMT

We are Silver status. There was a lot of box ticking but I do think it has helped. I thinks the cats are calmer in the cat consult room.

I think one of the biggest changes was actually in the staff: we don't scruff, we use minimal handling first, we give them breaks if they need it and nurses who aren't confident in handling cats get training from those nurses who are cat whisperers.

I have been surprised at some of the ways cats have been handled when we have members of staff join the practice but we tactfully explain the techniques we find work.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

David Mills — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 17:13:28 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Of the cats? Or the humans? [/quote]

Cats.

Rough estimates

5pc of cats will always be aggressive and scared regardless.

30pc are friendly and interactive

65pc are scared but non-aggressive. This is to do with personality, being in a strange environment, the journey, the fact they're being prodded and poked by a stranger. Separate waiting areas and some feliway won't solve that to any noticeable degree.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:56:28 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]I would say car journey is stressful but sitting in a waiting room full of dogs (especially those that go up to the carrier ‘he’s only saying hello’) or being hospitalised in a ward full of barking dogs must be pretty stressful for a cat as well![/quote]

We've also found having separate dog and cat waiting areas makes it less stressful for dog owners who aren't having to hold back a dog that's desperate to get its nose into a cat basket.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Sarah Keir — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:01:53 GMT

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

KMurphy — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:30:01 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"] Is "dog-friendly" taken as read?[/quote]

We aim for Fear Free! I haven't done accreditation for that but it's something we strive for. I think most vets do a lot of this anyway but I'm always open to tips and tricks for improving the experience for the pet. The toy box in the consulting room is a big favourite, for example.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

KMurphy — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:25:15 GMT

We became cat friendly a couple of years ago, silver level. It may be a box-ticking exercise but it guided us on what to do. I had an extension on the clinic to add a small cat ward and we put "cat parking" in the waiting room to keep cats out of reach of dogs. We've found that cats are generally more relaxed, especially when hospitalised, and we've had spontaneous owner feedback telling us their cats are more relaxed here than at previous vets. I do wonder how much of it is our change in approach - during the process all the staff had extra training in handling cats and general cat behaviour, which has helped us day to day. It also motivated me to do more feline medicine CPD and one of my VCAs has done the ISFM cat nursing course.

Also, "cat friendly" starts at home so we try and educate our clients on transporting cats and helping cats settle in their carriers so that the journey becomes less of an issue.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Nicola Cole — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 11:28:17 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

My view is that a lot of the stress for cats is in the journey to and from the vet.

[/quote]

I would say car journey is stressful but sitting in a waiting room full of dogs (especially those that go up to the carrier ‘he’s only saying hello’) or being hospitalised in a ward full of barking dogs must be pretty stressful for a cat as well!

Sorry Kate-no specific feedback about cat friendly practices.

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Bob Russell — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 10:57:32 GMT

My view is that a lot of the stress for cats is in the journey to and from the vet.

Most cats wander quite happily around the consultation room, marking this and that 'mine'.

Now we are a two vet practice it may be worth trying cat only clinics. Not possible to have cat only areas because the waiting room is to small. Surely cats are more stressed by the presence of other cats?

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Iain Richards — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:54:26 GMT

I dislike the tag, "cat-friendly" and see there is a "rabbit-friendly" one now. The ISFM have produced some good stuff, but the label is a bit perverse, not least as it implies that those without the award are not cat friendly. Is "dog-friendly" taken as read? How many species "friendlies" woud one practice need?

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Kate Richardson — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:16:51 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Like a school inspection, a box ticking exercise. [/quote]

I agree, that is why I'm interested in people's experiences of whether or not it works.

[quote user="David Mills"]Down to personality. [/quote]

Of the cats? Or the humans?

RE: Cat friendly or not so friendly

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:03:23 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]I like cats. But to reduce their stress in a clinic? Almost impossible. Down to personality. [/quote]

In the past I would have agreed with you, but we moved to a new larger premises last year, previously we had one waiting area and 2 consulting rooms that were used for all species, now we have a separate cat waiting area and consulting room. I think cats are more relaxed, and several owners have commented that their cats have been better behaved at the new site compared to how they were at the old site.

We have applied for cat friendly status, but haven't had an answer yet so I'm not sure whether I can be much help to the OP.