Delvosterone Vs spay

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Rob Loxley — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 21:08:04 GMT

[quote user="villagevet"]not cheap either though! [/quote]

especially as suprelorin often doesn't last the full time in bitches (cf dogs)

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Lindsey Edwards — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:16:42 GMT

I would recommend to spay - alternative would be suprelorin implant also (may potentially spur on heat if very close to due but as she is 2months post delvosterone should get away with it). One implant q6 or 12months would give medically induced spay (anoestrus - FSH/LH suppression) without exogenous progesterones so significantly less risk of adverse events (pyo/mammary masses/diabetes etc)...not cheap either though!

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

ebedford — Mon, 02 Sep 2019 14:40:07 GMT

Thanks everyone, I will see what they say about spaying. They have hopefully been monitoring resting resp rate over the last week. She did have a possible collapse last week but not necessarily heart related, possibly more heat related! She's been fine since with no heart meds started.

Sounds like spaying her will definitely be the simplest option.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Rob Loxley — Mon, 02 Sep 2019 08:52:57 GMT

I'd rather spay the asymptomatic dog with a heart murmur than deal with the pyo once she's progressed to heart failure

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Ian Ramsey — Sun, 01 Sep 2019 11:13:05 GMT

To all that has been written, I would add in a mention the costs of diabetes (plus cataracts) as well, particularly if Delvosterone (proligesterone) is used repeatedly as there is almost certainly an increased risk of this condition.

Quite a bit published by colleagues in Utrecht on this aspect as they were able to show that the proligesterone caused growth hormone secretion by the mammary gland of dogs leading to insulin resistance and therefore an increased risk of diabetes. The doses used in the studies were higher than we would use clinically.

Best wishes

Ian

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Clive Ansell — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:54:17 GMT

+1 to get on and get spayed.

Agree with all of the above, plus as the dog gets older and if a pyometra develops, or its cardiac status declines, then the risks associated with anaesthesia and surgery will increase somewhat.

If the Gd3 murmur is asympomatic and the dog is not on treatment I would just get it done. If on treatment would make sure she is stable.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Sammy82 — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:25:20 GMT

I would present client with the cost of delvosterone (and potential pyo op) vs. one-off spay, discussion of risks with either and let them decide, it's their money in the end.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Alistair Graham-Evans — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 00:40:32 GMT

I would keep it simple and spay for permanent solution. If clinically normal the heart murmur is irrelevant, especially if mitral location. It really annoys me when I see clients whose dogs have not had dental treatment or other important surgery to improve their lives just because of a heart murmur.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 23:11:35 GMT

[quote user="Catherine Williams"]unless I want to risk finding I'm doing an almost in season spay[/quote]

It's not bad. I've done them in season. Nothing like a cat. Seriously just get on and spay her.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Catherine Williams — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:21:56 GMT

I've asked the drug company about this recently. I've just taken on a young bitch due to come into season any time now, too late for me to spay her unless I want to risk finding I'm doing an almost in season spay. I plan to give delvosteron as soon as she comes into season (I can't deal with a season, she mixes with too many dogs) then the company recommendation is to spay at 3mths post injn at the midpoint of the between season interval as with a normal spay.

We used to use delvosteron on my parents' dogs when I was a kid, (n=2) but both had permanent postponement of season protocols then had pyos associated with cystic ovaries at about 5yr old. I don't really like delvosteron

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:08:49 GMT

Another vote for spay here. If no clinical heart signs the anesthetic isn’t so much of a risk to my mind. I also used to see a lot of dogs on delvosterone, and as said above, I’m not sure of more of them got pyos than the general unspayed population. I see, to remember it was stingy though!

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:31:07 GMT

I'd also spay anytime but if the bitch has had delvo she should quickly be in anoestrus anyway.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:20:40 GMT

[quote user="ebedford"]

Thanks everyone. What kind of timing post-injection would you spay?

[/quote]

I'll spay a bitch any day you want. Crack on. I really don't think it matters.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

ebedford — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:12:29 GMT

Thanks everyone. What kind of timing post-injection would you spay?

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:49:03 GMT

Like Michael and others, I'd spay her. If she is showing signs of CHF, then treat that first. If not, then there really shouldn't be an issue.

However, I did used to use delvo years ago when it was economically a lot cheaper than spaying. It was very effective ... first dose in anoestrous before season due, then next 3 months later, then after 4 months, and then every 5 months after that. I don't remember seeing any specific health issues with it. Hard to know if some of the dogs would have got a pyo anyway....

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Anthony Todd — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:38:56 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"] I'd happily spay a bitch with a grade 3 heart murmur every day of the week.[/quote]

So would I, and this is a recurring caveat.

Surely the cardiac load in a well oxygenated and ventilated anaesthetic is, as I have suggested before, less of a "strain" on cardiac output than a run after a rabbit in the park on a hot day?

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:23:14 GMT

We used to re-use the bottles but it could be as long as 10 years ago they added the following line to the data sheet:

"Shelf life after first opening the immediate packaging: use immediately."

We used to use it in ferrets too, but that is no longer economical. They didn't like it.

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Andreia Dias — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:20:33 GMT

We had a handful of clients on our first practice that did not want to spay, but didn't want them coming into season... The protocol seems to work, but to be honest I don't remember having it done on such an old bitch. Also didn't see any pyos that were on Delvo, but not a huge caseload and, like I said, most of them young-ish.

Delvo shouldn't be used "when needed", after you start the protocol I believe it's every 5 months (6 months maybe? Haven't used it in years), otherwise you have to restart it with 2 injections again. In theory you can give it just after they've started their season, but we always warned the owners that it may not really stop the season (I think I only did it once and it worked, n=1, maybe!).

(Also, we re-used the bottles?... Didn't even know you shouldn't!)

RE: Delvosterone Vs spay

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:09:52 GMT

You have to throw the rest of the open bottle - that simply makes it a VERY expensive option (£100+ last time I worked it out). I'd happily spay a bitch with a grade 3 heart murmur every day of the week.

We used to use it a lot*, but it's thankfully gone out of favour. Many, many treated dogs didn't get a pyo, but some of them did. Financially it's a much better income stream for the practice charging £100 every 5 months for the rest of the dogs life and then £500 more for the possible pyo, but I'd spay.

*the partner who retired before we joined the practice hated spaying bitches. When I first started work I'd do more Delvo injections than boosters some weeks.