Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Iain Richards — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 09:32:31 GMT

Well done.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Jenny Harris — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 05:50:48 GMT

An update in case it helps anyone else- I haven’t used trazodone before but 50mg of this with 800mg gabapentin at home meant the owner could get a muzzle on, apparently he was pretty sleepy with that until he got to be vets but able to do the lead under the door thing (which was horrible) to sedate IM. We have advised PTS but hopefully at least have a way to deal with this dog in an emergency or for PTS in future. Thanks for all replies, and I can recommend the trazodone

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

janine redman — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:41:21 GMT

I still think a combination of oral Xanax and ACP plus sileo ( on food) would be enough to sedate the dog for muzzling and transport to the surgery as long as the owner is aware of the risks Of over sedating. And adding ketamine in food (sausage) or squirted in the mouth if that combination wasn’t enough (although that might need a visit and the dog on a lead at home if still reactive). Whilst I agree spaniel crosses can look very fearsome they have neither the bulk , not the jaw power to be as dangerous as the larger breeds.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:19:00 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]I understand what you are thinking,[/quote]

Sorry, I see what you mean now....

What are the alternatives then; my succinyl wouldn't be too safe if self-injected and prussic acid too, so how, and what, in the unlikely event which one of you may face.....

PS A cast iron black soil stack is a good snubbing post or was in my past.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:02:43 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]I wouldn't use it at all unless it is in a dart gun.[/quote]

It is VASTLY more dangerous in a dart gun................

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:08:28 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]The vet probably was just being very safe and very responsible![/quote]

I understand what you are thinking, but no, if the dog had bitten one of us by mistake and caused an accidental stick or splash injury, it could have been fatal. He didn't manage risks and eventually won a Darwin Award.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Sammy82 — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:54:18 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]

[quote user="John Wessels"]

Immobilon still around?

[/quote]

I've seen a vet use 0.5ml large animal Immobilon subcut on a dangerous dog many years ago. He was totally irresponsible and told no one what he was doing, plus we had no naloxone and didn't draw up any Revivon either. I think I was a bit traumatised afterwards!

You can still get it for exotics.

[/quote]

In my first job my boss used it for dogs, aweful GA and so dangerous for the user. No Revivon in sight either. I would definitely not use it in a dog that is not 100% restrained. Actually,I wouldn't use it at all unless it is in a dart gun. Are there any zoo vets nearby that could help?

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:27:31 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]I've seen a vet use 0.5ml large animal Immobilon subcut on a dangerous dog many years ago. He was totally irresponsible and told no one what he was doing, plus we had no naloxone and didn't draw up any Revivon either. I think I was a bit traumatised afterwards![/quote]

The surrounding circumstances may have saved a serious, career-ending incident or worse, and may explain the reasons, and the obvious lack of antagonists [apart from the dog!]

The vet probably was just being very safe and very responsible!

I've used succinylcholine in one very dangerous situation with a syringe already loaded with pentobarb, and would do it again if circumstances made it necessary.

A colleague had some of his his cheek ripped out whilst trying to euth. a boxer in a car-boot!

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:08:25 GMT

[quote user="John Wessels"]

Immobilon still around?

[/quote]

You can still get it for exotics.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:07:25 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]spraying domitor into the (open, snarling!) mouth[/quote]

Yes, many years ago I had to use prussic acid, which was effective safeish and quick, but not too humane for an alsation bitch protecting pups hysterically in an old horse stable at a populated!! junior school.

Domitor sounds like a better and effective modern alternative.

Squirting a liquid into a wide-open mouth was surprisingly easy....

Critically nobody or child was hurt.

BTW, not infrequently, and usually in a "critical situation", dogs get their collars off!

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Julie Innes — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 08:54:32 GMT

Just re-read my post- to be clear, with cockapoo I advised/ offered euthanasia earlier on, but they wanted to continue to try!

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Julie Innes — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 08:53:13 GMT

I feel for you- I hate these cases!

The only one I don't think anyone has mentioned is spraying domitor into the (open, snarling!) mouth- apparently it can be absorbed transmucosally. Not hugely reliable, however, but might just get it sedated enough to place muzzle. If not send it home and try again. Owners need to be realistic about staff safety.

As far as the dog itself goes, I have seen cocker rage (8 week old pup that I couldn't get near at first vaccine, progressed to attacking owners, euthanased before 1 year old). I had a cockapoo a few years ago that was also horribly unpredictable. The owners were really lovely and tried to work with it, paid out a fortune on seeing the behaviouralist at the vet school, put all sorts of routines in place, but ultimately it was only a matter of time, and I put him to sleep after he put the female owner in hospital (not the first time he had bitten any of them). It's sad, but I feel there is no safe way to rehabilitate these guys, and I always feel an aggressive dog is not a happy dog, and therefore has a far reduced QOL, and I explain this to the owners. I hope your owners see sense before someone in the family is badly hurt

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

John Wessels — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:38:01 GMT

Immobilon still around?

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:51:07 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Be very careful, Anthony, the Thought Police are never far away.[/quote]

Sorry! "I've only known it work in canine "sexual vagrants", as they used to be politely called"

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:45:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I've only known it work in "sexual vagrants", as they used to be politely called.[/quote]

Be very careful, Anthony, the Thought Police are never far away.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:16:17 GMT

Any actual evidence, or even anecdotes, that dogs like this one actually change after castration with regard to biting people?

I've only known it work in "sexual vagrants", as they used to be politely called.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Bob Russell — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:38:22 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]

They learn that aggression works as a deterrent. It escalates. I can't think of a single psychopathic dog in 30 years. Humans are very complex

[/quote]

Nor can I think of a single dog that can be diagnosed as psychopathic or sociopathic. We cannot sit them down and complete the discussion and analysis that would allow the diagnosis.

Why would non-human patients not have these traits?

It can be argued that environment plays a part in how mental illnesses/abnormalities are expressed. I am sure there are psychopathic/sociopathic humans that cope without becoming mass murderers.

Some behaviour traits are going to be inherited and it is probably splitting hairs whether these are more likely to become fear aggressive.

I have known labradors and collies, in particular, that were 'bad' at 8 weeks and just got worse.

People may be complex but dogs are far from simple either.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Noweia — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 23:20:27 GMT

In addition to the rest of the thread, if he is too big for a crush cage could you chuck a large duvet over him and pin him with caution when he can't see where to bite? I'd had success wedging their head between my calves when standing over them, and getting someone to stab them in the rear with sedation.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:52:18 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]

Yes but even dominance is driven by fear [and hormone]. Guarding resources is fear driven. There is hierachy within litters. I guess that's why we remove them early.

[/quote]

I wouldn't care what the psychological [convenient] reason was if my new career, which I'd worked hard for, was finished by an uncontrolled savage dog that had permanently disabled my hand!

Take extreme care you guys!!

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Christina Smith — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:44:27 GMT

Yes but even dominance is driven by fear [and hormone]. Guarding resources is fear driven. There is hierachy within litters. I guess that's why we remove them early.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Todd — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:35:46 GMT

Read all five pages of explanations causes, reasons and [mainly] excuses and blames and be careful all you lot now at the cutting and biting edge, and be very wary!

It could end your chosen career!

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Kate Richardson — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:29:25 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]Aggression = fear.[/quote]

What about dominance? and mis-directed play aggression? They are not necessarily fear related?

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:05:08 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Christina Smith"] I can't think of a single psychopathic dog in 30 years.[/quote]

You must not see many chihuahuas

[/quote]Why do you think they are aggressive ?

[/quote]

Should have put a tongue in cheek emoji there. It is very possible they are frightened, but I've had more unprovoked attacks from the little land sharks than any other breed combined.

They sit in their owners bosom or in the crook of their arm and turn in to a whirling dervish as soon as you turn in their direction.

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Christina Smith — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:01:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Christina Smith"] I can't think of a single psychopathic dog in 30 years.[/quote]

You must not see many chihuahuas

[/quote]Why do you think they are aggressive ?

RE: Suggestions for owner sedating an aggressive dog at home

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:49:29 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"] I can't think of a single psychopathic dog in 30 years.[/quote]

You must not see many chihuahuas