Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Charlotte Marshall — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 18:20:19 GMT

I'm sure a friend of mine told me she was told in a lecture for a surgery course (sorry not first hand) that there was decreased fibrinogen during season hence an increased risk of bleeding.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

david kemp — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 16:41:02 GMT

went to lecture by gary england at bsava this year. his view 2 windows to spey. traditional 3-6 months post AND 1-21 post oestrus before pro lactin rise. eye opening!!

also evidence re speying gets ever more clouded..individual advice based of medical evidence and owner wishes. Shelter medicine vs fur baby advice. Every time I think I have it nailed-the goalposts keep changing.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 00:14:06 GMT

I have this on my list of vet folklore that gets passed down and has no substance. I'll spay a bitch at any point in her cycle you want. I don't believe it is ever appreciably harder.

I would always ligate cranial to cervix, so accidental mating would leave the vagina as it was beforehand.

I don't spay that many bitches in all honestly but I do the ones that tend to drop out of the usual "3-4 months after a season" cycle. I spayed my own bitch last week as she was coming into season. Spayed a pregnant bitch last week. Have another one tomorrow that could be pregnant.

I really don't believe it is much different in bitches. Cats are very different and a in season cat spay is a different kettle of fish to a normal spay.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

David Mills — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 13:40:57 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Come on? how many have you done?!!

One has to wonder...........

[/quote]

Probably 200-300 on a conservative estimate, mainly on neutering trips (where you don't get a choice) in areas where most of them have Ehrlichia.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:08:03 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Classic dogma around this:

The uterus and ligaments are more friable. They aren't.

More blood supply. No.

Clotting. Irrelevant if you're a competent surgeon.

Milk let down due to lack of inhibition of prolactin. Theoretical.

[/quote]

The uterus and ligaments are more friable. They aren't.

Yeah, well, do a few : they are, they really are!!

More blood supply. No.

Yeh, well, my uteri did; always............

and ligaments are more friable.

The ligament, could always, in my hands, tow the HMS Belfast to New Zealand

Come on? how many have you done?!!

One has to wonder...........

More blood supply. No.

Thank goodness but are you sure,I never was!!?

Seemed a lot to me.............................!

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:02:08 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Classic dogma around this:

The uterus and ligaments are more friable. They aren't.

More blood supply. No.

Clotting. Irrelevant if you're a competent surgeon.

Milk let down due to lack of inhibition of prolactin. Theoretical.

[/quote]

The uterus and ligaments are more friable. They aren't.

Yeah, well, do a few : they are, they really are!!

More blood supply. No.

Yeh, well, my uterus few did; always............

and ligaments are more friable.

the ligament, could always, in my hands, tow the HMS Belfast to New Zealand

Come on? how many have you done?!!

More blood supply. No.

thank goodness but are you sure?

Seemed a lot to me!

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 00:08:22 GMT

Geoff Parkin once told me off severely for spaying a bitch in oestrus. It was nothing to do with any medical reason.The reason was that the bitch would still seem oestrous to a dog and if he managed to mate her the penis could well burst right through the vaginal ligature. In that time (1975) and place (Wakefield) it was probably a good reason.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

David Mills — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 23:02:33 GMT

Classic dogma around this:

The uterus and ligaments are more friable. They aren't.

More blood supply. No.

Clotting. Irrelevant if you're a competent surgeon.

Milk let down due to lack of inhibition of prolactin. Theoretical.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Silvia Maldonado — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 22:03:24 GMT

Maybe we got the association from the Von Willebrand disease

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Nicola Cole — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 16:09:40 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I've never been as paranoid about not spaying in season as some vets...would prefer not too but not that fussed tbh.

[/quote]

I thought the risk due to spaying in season was

a) increased blood supply

b) something to do with inducing an ongoing false pregnancy type situation due to removal of something negative feedback-wise...or something! Of course, could be a theoretical risk increase...or absolute rubbish

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 15:49:11 GMT

...and yet in human medicine it is accepted that oestrogens increase the production of clotting factors and women on the contraceptive pill have increased risk of stroke due to clots!

I've never been as paranoid about not spaying in season as some vets...would prefer not too but not that fussed tbh.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:50:25 GMT

I've been told something similar - high levels of progesterone act as an anti-coagulant or something like that.

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Julie Innes — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:39:56 GMT

Another one here who thought the same! No idea where I got the idea, think possibly picked it up while seeing practice as a student myself!!

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

vetbl.locum — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 14:03:20 GMT

I was under the same impression that animals in oestrus more likely to bleed.

No idea where I collected that nugget of info

Rgds

RE: Increased bleeding in canine oestrus?

Lindsey Edwards — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:13:56 GMT

I was under the impression that both oestrogen and progesterone increased fibrinogen and clotting risks in general (supported by this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9404284) but that increased blood supply and tissue friability increased bleeding risk.