Lilies and cats

RE: Lilies and cats

Bob Russell — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 13:25:25 GMT

Quite a few years ago one of our cats went off her food, started to drink more and vomited.

We blood tested and found BUN off the scale, high crea (in those days samples went by post!).

As soon as we got the results she went on a drip (everyone else was saying she was fine!!).

My brother had bought us a Leopard Lily and we had not picked this fact up. The cat had nibbled the leaves.

She went on to live another 17 years, dying at about 20!!

Plant had been bought at B&Q and had no warnings. When I told them these were removed from sale until suitable warnings could be added. Quite a result really.

If lily's were that dangerous to be near we would be seeing cats dropping like flies. We don't so they are not. Apparently quite bitter tasting so rarely eaten. I have heard the story of cats becoming ill after brushing up against them and getting pollen on their coat. Never seen it in the flesh so to speak!

RE: Lilies and cats

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 13:08:34 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

I love lilies, but if I ever have them in the house I pull all the anthers off, as it is meant to be the pollen that is toxic is it not? I do generally keep them away from my cats. I thought if they got pollen on them and licked it off you should put them on fluids to minimise renal injury?

[/quote]

As far as I am aware the whole plant is toxic, but it has to be ingested. The reason the pollen is considered the most dangerous is that it is very easy for it to get on the cat's coat if it brushes past them, or even walks past them and the pollen has dropped onto the surface. The cat then ingests the pollen when it grooms.

RE: Lilies and cats

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 13:07:57 GMT

[quote user="mel kavanagh"]So what are the fluids doing exactly? [/quote]

Purely from basic principles, I've always thought that if the toxin is renally excreted then it will concentrate up in the renal tubules....so fluids will reduce this effect. (Or at least prevent it getting worse if hypovolemic). Hypervolemia will also cause diuresis thus encourage more rapid excretion and bladder emptying. But no evidence to support...

RE: Lilies and cats

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 12:48:46 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]One source said cats can die just from being in the room ...... sounds a bit dubious to me[/quote]

This does sound a bit over dramatic - as far as I'm aware toxicity does require ingestion! I imagine this comes from the fact that the pollen is toxic also, so I guess could be dropped and get onto the cats paws etc.

FWIW, I won't have lilies in the house, if a bouquet includes them I take them out. Probably over-cautious, but I have seen at least one cat die from lily toxicity, and others suspected.

RE: Lilies and cats

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 12:05:31 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

[/quote] that’s what I thought Julie but advice seems varied. One source said cats can die just from being in the room ...... sounds a bit dubious to me

RE: Lilies and cats

Julie Innes — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 09:16:51 GMT

RE: Lilies and cats

mel kavanagh — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:33:01 GMT

Cheers for that Anthony, and I have no references to draw on, just doing my own thinking But is is something I have wondered for a long time!!

RE: Lilies and cats

Anthony Todd — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:24:10 GMT

[quote user="mel kavanagh"]So what are the fluids doing exactly? [/quote]

My question too, and this makes me glad I asked:

There is currently a paradigm shift in which hypervolemia is no longer desirable and is increasingly shown to be detrimental to both renal outcomes and survival. Instead, approaches that aim for neutral and slightly negative fluid balance or ‘dry' patients after initial fluid resuscitation are favored.

from

Nephron Clin Pract 2013;123:238-245

https://doi.org/10.1159/000354713

Although the last "after initial fluid resuscitation" confuses me??

RE: Lilies and cats

mel kavanagh — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:07:51 GMT

So what are the fluids doing exactly? If the cat is symptomless - same for any poisoning really. If the pet is bright, eddu and running round will pre-emptive (other than cover your back and run up the bill) fluids achieve anything? Most organs are rested if they are injured. If the animal is not dehydrated won't extra fluid load just give the kidneys more work to do?

Fluids always quick and cheap and owners really really think it's extremely high tec for some reason if their pet is 'on a drip' - and it must me serious!! Lillies are either poisonous or they are not, same with this new grapes thing - poisonous or not. It has to be yes or no. Just wondered what thoughts are on the value of ubiquitous fluids as the cure for all things.

RE: Lilies and cats

Andreia Dias — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:29:50 GMT

Well, I have only seen one cat with ARF after lily exposure (we think). Others have been put on fluids for 48h when they've been known to be exposed.

Although two weeks ago I did investigations on a cat that was PU/PD as per owner and had weight loss, but with good USG and other results compatible with UTI. Owner came to pick her up and saw our post on the waiting room. He said he had lilies in the house for years and "was going to toss them out as soon as he got home and never again!" as he didn't know they were toxic. But cat did not have any biochemistry compatible with neither ARF or CKD...

So I don't know, I think this is one of those things... some cats with sniff it and go into ARF (but maybe they already had underlying kidney disease?), others may be tolerant (or smart). Thing is, with cats so prone to have kidney disease, in some cases there must be correlation but not necessarily causation...

RE: Lilies and cats

Christina Smith — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:25:56 GMT

Lily flowering season is almost here. I have lilies in my garden as do many of my neighbours. Is there a seasonal increase in ARF in outdoor town cats I wonder ?

RE: Lilies and cats

Anna Riddoch — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:23:03 GMT

I don't know the relative toxicities of each part of the Lily,but wonder if this has come from cats that may graze a bit of pollen off, or roll in some on the floor, and then groom themselves?

RE: Lilies and cats

Anthony Todd — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:11:55 GMT

I don't suppose there is any firm evidence of ARF or even a change? Might be cheaper just to check with an ubiquitous blood sample?

just asking.....

Er, this might be:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21147474

RE: Lilies and cats

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:03:43 GMT

Exactly Jenny , completely understandable. And my lilies are in the dustbin. I had cut the stamens out already but I don’t trust the little blighter not to mess with them now I’ve got the wind up me !

RE: Lilies and cats

Jenny Harris — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 11:58:09 GMT

I had lilies in my house recently and wasn’t too worried as my cats don’t normally like to nibble things like that. but my cat appeared with some pollen on his nose- I called VPIS and they advised they have had a report of a death of a cat from ARF that had played in a box that lilies had been in, so they advocate being quite aggressive with 48h of IVFT straight away. I just didn’t want to risk it so I did put him on fluids, he is fine, he probably would have been ok without the fluids as I don’t think he actually ate any of the plant, but I wouldn’t have forgiven myself if he hadn’t been.

RE: Lilies and cats

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 11:54:59 GMT

It opens up that wider question of defensive medicine which is a bit of a minefield.

Do you play safe and scare the poop out of the client with worst case scenario, intensive fluids, big bill and put them off vets , or measured advice and make them make the decision ( my preferred) .

Its not easy for any party especially when time constraints come into play.

Telemedicine IT non human triage would probably admit every one who had walked past a bouquet

RE: Lilies and cats

Jill Butterworth — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 10:43:45 GMT

One of my neighbours almost always has lilies on her kitchen table and has two cats. I've told her they are poisonous but she is insistent that the cat's don't touch them (although I think they get on the table!). They are both in their teens and so have had 'in the same room' exposure for many years, so my instinct is that this is internet scaremongering. I still wouldn't recommend unsupervised access, but it's her choice, I guess.