Sedative for pigs

RE: Sedative for pigs

Mark Rowland — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 08:42:57 GMT

Haha ok I’ll keep stum from now on on this.

At least no one will be eating it’s womb [quote user="Iain Richards"]

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

ts a bit nebulous with pet animals and off licence forms (ours include a food producing exclusion clause)

So i reckon I've got a defence

[/quote]

I'm not so sure, m'lud. For horses, there is the equine passport, no passport it's a food producing animal. While rabbits are also FPA, they come under the MUMS rues (minor use, monir species). Your actual pig is a food-producing animal, so you have to use somehting that is in 37/2010 - the MRL table.

Your defence is that it it's not in the public interest to prosecute you, but a vindictive client and a mendacious lawyer might like to see you squirm at DC.

Using a "Do Not Eat" ear tag would however, help.

[/quote]

RE: Sedative for pigs

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:43:25 GMT

[quote user="Fable"]

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

give slow iv if amenable as IM often ends up partially SC or intra-fat.

[/quote]

How do you get IV access in a pig Marie? Ear vein? Also, how do you restrain them for this? I find it hard enough often just getting an IM injection into most of my piggy patients!

[/quote]

I deal with pet/zoo pigs so might get the easier animals! I'm also more used to getting ear veins on pissed off 2 tonne rhinos so a pig is a welcome relief...

EMLA cream on ears with face of pig with face of pig in bucket, then wait 30mins. Butterfly catheter into ear vein with bucket/ropes as necessary and you can then inject from a safe distance once the needle is in. I tend to use the muscle mass behind the ear if that fails.

Marie

RE: Sedative for pigs

bob lehner — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:23:36 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

a mendacious lawyer might like to see you squirm at DC.

Using a "Do Not Eat" ear tag would however, help.

[/quote]

Does the DC actually examine your ears at the hearing?

[quote user="Iain Richards"]a vindictive client[/quote]

Unfortunately this does happen - fairly prominent Eq vets have got into big trouble - fiddling vaccine card dates under pressure from influential owners - then at a later date vet and owner fall out and owner shops vet to College for falsifying vacc cards...!

RE: Sedative for pigs

Iain Richards — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:14:44 GMT

[quote user="Mark Rowland"]

ts a bit nebulous with pet animals and off licence forms (ours include a food producing exclusion clause)

So i reckon I've got a defence

[/quote]

Your defence is that it it's not in the public interest to prosecute you, but a vindictive client and a mendacious lawyer might like to see you squirm at DC.

Using a "Do Not Eat" ear tag would however, help.

RE: Sedative for pigs

Mark Rowland — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:32:47 GMT

Haha oops I should have said I heard of a case... thats what I meant.

its a bit nebulous with pet animals and off licence forms (ours include a food producing exclusion clause)

So i reckon I've got a defence

RE: Sedative for pigs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:26:26 GMT

You can't use midazolam in pigs, unless I've missed something?

I used to love diazepam in sheep but not these days.

RE: Sedative for pigs

Mark Rowland — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:56:30 GMT

I agree

a pissed off pig is a bit of a nightmare.

IV access is a luxury in most cases.

I speyed a pig a couple of weeks ago. midazolam intranasally was so well tolerated and worked a treat.

Gaseous induction with Im buprenorphine as an analgesia worked well

goodluck

RE: Sedative for pigs

Fable — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 22:33:09 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

give slow iv if amenable as IM often ends up partially SC or intra-fat.

[/quote]

How do you get IV access in a pig Marie? Ear vein? Also, how do you restrain them for this? I find it hard enough often just getting an IM injection into most of my piggy patients!

RE: Sedative for pigs

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:11:33 GMT

Thank you all.

RE: Sedative for pigs

bob lehner — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:31:04 GMT

A pig (even a pet pig) is a food producing animal. If the product is not licensed for use in food producing species, or on the EU 37/2010 list, then you cannot legally use it.

RE: Sedative for pigs

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 07:52:10 GMT

Atropine pre-med deep IM. If longish procedure then 0.2mg/kg midazolam, 5mg/kg ketamine - give slow iv if amenable as IM often ends up partially SC or intra-fat. Then iv top up of propofol/alfaxan if needed. Flumazenil reversal will speed recovery significantly. If short then alpha 2 better for quick recovery - 0.5mg/kg xylazine instead of the midazolam and reverse with atipam IV.

I've not used azaperone in pigs but have started using it at low doses (0.2mg/kg) in hoofstock as part of anaesthesia and it gives a smoother anaesthesia.

Tiletamine/zolazepam is readily available (we get it as Zoletil from NVS) but recovery is slow and less predictable.

Marie

RE: Sedative for pigs

Fable — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 01:17:30 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Cascade is an issue, and we don't have Tiletamine/zolazepam easily available in the UK.

[/quote]

Yeah, I remembered about the Cascade after I clicked post...don't tend to get so hung up on that here in NZ, so I don't always think about it. Never tried Stresnil in combo with Ketamine, but it does sound effective. The worst part of sedating pigs, I find, is being patient and giving the drugs the proper time to work!

RE: Sedative for pigs

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 00:17:48 GMT

Cascade is an issue, and we don't have Tiletamine/zolazepam easily available in the UK.

Stresnil is ok, works ok with ketamine, but slow onset. I've used the combination from the data sheet and it works OK for the exact thing you describe:

PIG

To induce anaesthesia

With azaperone

Ketamine 15 - 20 mg/kg IM (1.5 - 2 ml/10 kg)

and 2 mg/kg azaperone IM.

In 4 – 5 month old pigs, following administration of 2 mg/kg azaperone and 20 mg/kg ketamine IM the onset of anaesthesia took on average 29 minutes and duration of effect lasted about 27 minutes.

On it's own Stresnil is poor.

RE: Sedative for pigs

Fable — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 00:01:00 GMT

Tiletamine/zolazepam combinations IM are excellent for sedating pigs. We use zoletil at a dose range between 1-4mg/kg, but 1mg/kg should be suitable for most things. Only problem is that it's really quite expensive (not sure what the cost is like in the UK), so we tend to use it in young/small pigs.

I have also used a triple combination of xylazine (2mg/kg), ketamine (5mg/kg) and butorphanol (0.22mg/kg) IM for procedures like castrations and inserting nose rings. It takes a bit of time to kick in and you need to make sure you use a nice long needle to hit the muscle, but a very good level of sedation is achieved.

Haven't used Stresnil since leaving the UK, but remember having experiences similar to yours and prolonged recoveries as well.

There are definitely other drug combinations that you could use as well, but the two I've mentioned above are what I have experience with.